5/16/94 6:14:25 PM Opening ÒChat Log 5/16/94Ó for recording. AFL Don : Hello, Walt AFA Fixit : Hi Don GHutch : Hi Don AFL Don : Hello, George! AFA Fixit : Hi George AFL Don : We started without you! GHutch : This happens GHutch : Tonight I have my 11 year old co piloting. AFL Don : Right, Walt! It's set up some embarrassing situations... AFL Don : Great! Hello to your 11-year old! AFL Don : What's your progeny's name? GHutch : Hi, My name is Elizabeth AFL Don : Glad to meet you, Elizabeth! AFL Don : Hello, Marvin! AFC Marvin : Hello Don. And hello to Walt and George too. AFL Don : Hello, Chris! Good to see you again... AFA Fixit : Hiya Marvin, Chris. ChrisGurn : Hi Don, what's on the agenda tonight? AFA Fixit : Hi Elizabeth! AFL Don : Official topic is about ADB connectors, if anyone's interested... Otherwise open discussion... GHutch : Hello AFC ChrisGurn : Are those the connectors on the keyboard of the IIgs? or the stuff on the ChrisGurn : back of the IIgs or what? AFL Don : Right, Chris, the ADB connectors on the keyboard are the troublesome ones... ChrisGurn : Hmm, the only troubles I get is w/ the mouse not getting a good connection once ChrisGurn : in a while. ChrisGurn : I blame the mouse side of the connection, not the kbd. AFL Don : Mechanical stresses, if repeated, break 'em. AFC Marvin : I have been fortunate never to have trouble with my ADB connectors. Guess it is because I leave them GHutch : What happens Don, do they come loose? AFC Marvin : alone most of the time. AFL Don : Either one can cause troubles, just depends upon which breaks... AFL Don : The connector is fastened to the pc board in the keyboard only with solder, which stress breaks. AFA Fixit : That's my solution, Marvin. GHutch : Does it have any bearing on freeze ups? AFA Fixit : Plug it in, leave it alone. ChrisGurn : Is there any other "things" I'm able to connect to the ADB? ChrisGurn : GHutch, I've checked the ball part, I take it apart once in a while cuz it ChrisGurn : gets stuck. AFL Don : ...Yeah, cleaning the ball is essential. It really fills up with fuzz & stuff in there, even if you're careful... GHutch : This is so slow I can't believe it AFA Fixit : Have you cleaned the rollers? ChrisGurn : Na ah. what should I clean it w/? AFC Marvin : George, from here the speed of the system seems normal. I am on at 9600 so that may help a little but AFL Don : Best to not use a cleaning solution of any kind. Elbow grease and a fingernail works best... That's what SOS APPLE recommends... AFC Marvin : I find that when the system is slow the log- on speed makes no difference anyway. AFA Fixit : I use a little rubbing alcohol on a Q-tip. AFL Don : I'm seeing normal speed, but it's almost impossible to access Let's Discuss anywhere tonight. GHutch : Do you guys know about connecting Macs and OS/2 boxes? ChrisGurn : Tks Don. I'll check it some time. Don, it's real slow I notice sigh. AFA Fixit : After I've scraped the worst off carefully with my pocket knife. AFA Fixit : Macs and OS/2? What do you want to do? ChrisGurn : alrighty all. I'm gonna wander around a bit and go nighty nite. AFL Don : afk ChrisGurn : Got a final on Wed. for Stats applied to Business... Yuck! GHutch : Chris Which ball part do you mean? AFA Fixit : Night Chris. Thanks for stopping by. ChrisGurn : The rubber part. Should I do the metal ones too? ChrisGurn : (Caught it just before I was about to leave) AFA Fixit : It's the metal rollers that usually get clogged up in my experience. Hand dishwater detergent on AFA Fixit : the rubber ball. ChrisGurn : kool Tks GH and the Fixmeister. :) A AFC Marvin : I had good results using Windex on a cue tip to clean the rubber parts. Also used Windex for cleaning AFC Marvin : the mouse ball. AFC Softy : Uh.... Anyone home? :) AFL Don : afk AFA Fixit : Yeah, I'm sitting in my home office. AFC Marvin : Hello Softy. We are here. Don is AFK for a few moments. AFC Softy : :) AFC Softy : I'm still using my Sony XBR TV for a monitor.... :) AFC Softy : (the 27" model :D) GHutch : Good night (From Elizabeth) I have to go to bed :) AFC Marvin : That XBR is a good TV. I would think it would make a good monitor. How does it compare to other computer monitors you have seen? AFC Marvin : Good night Elizabeth. It is late for you. GHutch : 9600 here too, just an eternity to see response on the screen. AFC Softy : It's a marginal 80-column display. 320x200 mode is okay tho. AFC Marvin : Interesting George. When I hit return it shows up on the screen very quickly. AFC Softy : I'm using a direct video line from the IIgs to one of the video ports. AFC Marvin : I was just going to ask how you got the video into it. AFA Fixit : Composite? AFC Softy : Yup. AFA Fixit : Too bad it won't take the RGB output from the GS. AFC Softy : Yeah.... the original ones did. AFC Softy : And I *think* the XBR Pro model does. AFL Don : My XBR will... No wonder, Larry, the RCA input rolls off video at about 3.5 MHz! (Still AFK, important phone call I can't ignore) AFC Softy : Yeah... too bad I couldn't use some sort of S-Video connection. AFA Fixit : Would probably look pretty good with an RGB input AFC Softy : My Super Nintendo has S-Video... :) Niceguy506 : I hope some one can help me about Mac basics AFA Fixit : Can you see the difference between composite and S-video on the screen? AFA Fixit : Give us a shot. AFA Fixit : From the SNES. AFC Softy : Walt... dunno... I haven't hooked the SNES up that way yet. I have the adaptor AFC Softy : tho. GHutch : Well, just transfer files, I'm thinking MacLink is the way to go, but I have the serial port on the Niceguy506 : Someone gave me a Mac plus to use,I can't find any hardware for it. GHutch : OS/2 side taken up with a modem (unplug and play?) AFC Softy : Niceguy.... what kind of hardware?? AFA Fixit : What kind of hardware are you looking for? AFA Fixit : Put a $20 serial card in the OS/2 machine. AFA Fixit : Wait, the OS/2 box will read DOS formatted 3.5" floppies. Niceguy506 : Can someone tell me if I can use this to learn Mac Basics or should I learn on a newer Mac AFA Fixit : Just about everything you would want to learn on a Mac, can be learned on a Mac Plus. Just requires AFA Fixit : more patience. AFA Fixit : If the files will fit on a floppy, I'd rather use something like DOS Mounter than MacLink Plus. Niceguy506 : What is Dos Mounter? AFA Fixit : It's an extension to the Mac operating system that let's you mount MS DOS floppies on the Macintosh. AFA Fixit : One of the few things that will not run on a Mac Plus as it requires a high density floppy drive. GHutch : I agree Walt, my Duo doesn't have a disk slot when I take it to work, so floppies are tough... GHutch : What I want is a serial connection and the ability to "equalize" the files on both machines. AFA Fixit : Back to the cheap serial card for the OS/2 box. AFA Fixit : That or a LocalTalk card for the OS/2 box, though that may more difficult to get going. TallStuff : Hello all :) GHutch : I'm reluctant to put anything into the OS/2 box as it is the property of a Neanderthal IS dept. :( AFC Softy : {{{{{{{{Becky}}}}}}}}}}} :** :) TallStuff : {{{{{{{{Larry}}}}}}}}}}} :** :) AFA Fixit : {{{{{Kate}}}} TallStuff : {{{{{Walt}}}} AFA Fixit : Who buys a PC with only one serial port. I thought they all had at least two. AFA Fixit : Hiya Frank! GHutch : So what I need is a serial port, right? I'll have to see if this thing has a second one. AFC Marvin : Hello Kate! AFC Marvin : Good evening Frank. BCS Frank : Walt, y'all, Hi! :) AFC Softy : Hey Frank :D GHutch : <--IBM model 90 at work. (lousy graphics) TallStuff : Hiya Marvin :) AFA Fixit : It should. GHutch : So besides Maklink Plus, any other contenders for file transfer? TallStuff : afk... brb BCS Frank : <--what's the topic... file transfers? AFC Softy : Hi Andy :) GHutch : oops (Maklink= Russian version) AFC Marvin : Hello Andy. BCS Frank : or is there a topic? AFA AndyW : Hi Walt, Larry, Don, Marvin, Frank... AFA AndyW : {{ Becky }} AFA Fixit : There was a topic. Hi Andy. BCS Frank : Hi, Andy :) TallStuff : Off to roam :) GHutch : Hi Andy AFA Fixit : There's always generic telecom packages via null modem. AFC Marvin : Frank, the official discussion is ADB connectors. But the subject of file transfers is close enough. AFC Softy : Speaking of connectors..... :) BCS Frank : ADB's? Good topic. AFA AndyW : Hi George.. BCS Frank : Whatcha think of the practice of plugging/unplugging them with power on? AFC Softy : Walt.... would Fry's carry some Stabilant-22 (Tweek)? I can't find it anywhere AFA Fixit : BAAAD! AFC Softy : around here :/ AFA AndyW : Shouldn't do it.. GHutch : Frank, I had to do that very thing tonight... AFC Marvin : Larry would you like the phone number of the Stabilant 22 manufacturer? BCS Frank : hmmmm.... thinking you're not in favor... AFA Fixit : They might, but I don't remember ever seeing it there. AFC Softy : Hmmmm... dunno if it'd help Marvin... only need one can... ;) AFC Marvin : Stabilant 22 is made in Canada and I can give you their number if you want to call them. I usually purchase it from the factory. GHutch : Maybe the bad pukwudgies can get in the open end of the cable and cause a crash... AFA Fixit : Buy it by the quart do you? AFC Marvin : They will sell you small quantities. BCS Frank : Right now I'm running a GS next to an SE... only one keyboard. Bad idea to swap keyboard back and forth without shutdowns? AFC Marvin : I don't remember how many ounces are in the small bottles but it is about what you want to have on your bench. AFA AndyW : Bad idea Frank.. AFC Softy : Marvin... that's probably a little extreme for my case (calling them direct). AFC Softy : I can probably find some if a scrounge around some more. GHutch : Well, I'm off to the land of TV news. Have a nice week y'all. BCS Frank : Been cautious... glad to know there's reason to my hesitation. AFC Softy : I was wondering if Fry's might carry it because they opened up a new superstore in LA not long ago. BCS Frank : Careful George, that stuff is discouraging. AFC Marvin : Larry, don't be bashful. They are easy to talk to and to deal with. The company is PW Electro Chemical Ltd. The number is 416-889-1522. AFA Fixit : Very bad idea Frank GHutch : Yeah, even the "happy news" has a way of devolving... AFA Fixit : They are worth a try. AFC Softy : Frank.... never unplug an ADB item while it's on. Unless you don't mind AFC Softy : blowing up the ADB chip on the motherboard. :) BCS Frank : What about serial ports... can they be live swapped or are they prone to frying too? AFA AndyW : <= wonders if you can hook up 2 computers via ADB.. AFL Don : There'd be no way to synchronize them... AFA AndyW : Probably not.. That's why I didn't think it would work.. AFA AndyW : Cya Walt.. AFC Softy : 'nite Walt :) AFC Marvin : G'nite Walt :) AFA AndyW : Serial ports are buffered.. No problem swapping them, but would be best to use a serial switch box.. BCS Frank : Hmmmm... fickle little chips, aren't they. :) BCS Frank : Andy, I've hooked two keyboards to one 'puter, several times. AFA AndyW : I know that can be done.. 2 mice too.. Had a mouse and keyboard connected to a PowerBook (along with the built-in keyboard/mouse).. Worked fine.. AFL Don : BAK... Long essential phone call... BCS Frank : You get team typing with two keyboards, one chat room. Overlaps a lot. AFC Softy : (well I see the message boards are ZOOMing along again tonight. :/) AFA AndyW : <- waiting on club management for the Sonia area.. AFC Softy : One of these days they'll figure out how to add something new to the system AFC Softy : without munging something else. AFA AndyW : Seven Hills has some stuff in the works, but can't do anything online here until the access list can be changed.. AFL Don : Andy, re: your comment about linking two computers through ADB, don't think so... AFC Softy : Don... in your E-mail you mentioned there are two peaking coils in the blue gun AFC Softy : circuit. I can see one... but can't find the other. AFC Softy : Don.... oh... so you were referring to changing the other ones at the same time AFL Don : Larry, re: your earlier question, there's one peaking coil per color... AFA Fixit : Well, I'm going to hit the sack. Night folks. AFC Softy : then. AFL Don : Yeah, right, Larry... As long as you're in there, do all the peaking coils at one time. They'll all probably fail eventually BCS Frank : Walt, night :) AFL Don : , probably... AFC Softy : Don... you remember what size coil they are? AFL Don : So long Walt, CU AFA Fixit : See ya next week AFC Softy : I might just try changing them myself. AFL Don : 20 or 22 microHenries, although once I replaced 'em with small tunable ferrite cored coils, no difference in performance. AFL Don : Try just shorting them... AFL Don : You probably won't notice the difference... AFC Softy : The one I see in the blue circuit has a "bulb" shape to it. AFL Don : They're little gizmos with Red Black Black dots on 'em, or Red Red Black... AFL Don : About the size of a match head... AFL Don : ...little bigger AFC Softy : This one had *a* dot on it. AFL Don : Is this failure on a board that failed before? AFC Softy : The pc board was marked "Lxxx" where the L tells me it's a coil of some sort. AFL Don : Yeah, it's a coil (a very small inductor)... AFC Softy : Don... I don't know... the last failure was the same color. AFL Don : Well, maybe the new blue coil opened up. Could happen. AFC Softy : If you remember it was about 4 months after the first failure occurred. AFC Softy : Which was the red circuit then. AFL Don : Are the symptoms that the screen is bright blue, with no video, no brightness control? AFC Softy : Haven't had the green one go yet. :_ AFC Softy : :) AFC Softy : Right.... AFL Don : Oh, well, the red circuit is virtually independent of the blue circuit. Fixing one doesn't do a thing for the other. AFC Softy : Yeah...I know that.... I thought it was strange tho AFL Don : For some reason, the green is more apt to go first, but they're all just waiting to open... AFL Don : Change 'em all... AFL Don : That's what I've been doing, then you're through with it... AFC Softy : Okay.... 22uh coils it is then. AFC Marvin : Don, do those peaking coils show signs of overheating or do they look normal. Might be that AFL Don No obvious signs of damage in any I've seen AFL Don : I've had reports of users buying the coils for a quarter apiece, or less... AFL Don : 20 microHenries will do, too. AFL Don : It's not a critical value. AFC Marvin : something in the potting compound causes the copper wire inside to corrode after a period of time. So AFC Softy : I think I'll try just changing the one first. Then the others if I get it to AFC Softy : work. AFC Marvin : far I have not had a failure on my monitor but if it fails, the first thing I will do is measure the resistance of the coil and then jump it out to see if the monitor goes back to normal. AFL Don : I've taken 'em apart after failure, can't see why or where they've opened... AFC Softy : Marvin.... there wasn't any signs of overheating that I could see. AFL Don : Never any visible signs of abuse of any kind. They're just flat-out open when fail. AFC Softy : Don.... they're 25-cent parts eh?? AFC Marvin : I guess you would have to smash one open and see if the copper has turned to green fuzz on the inside. AFL Don : I've never seen one intermittent. One day they work, the next day you turn on the monitor and it's hurt-your-eyes bright in one color. BCS Frank : Are there any handy places for getting GS monitors serviced for folks who don't want to tempt voltage BCS Frank : highs? AFC Softy : Cheaper than a $98 board I reckon. :) AFL Don : Best deal, Frank, would be to take it to a TV service shop, explain what you want done, get a cheap bid for the work first, since no diagnosis is required. Any TV tech can handle it, but if you just take the monitor into the shop they'll do a number on your wallet if they have to diagnose it. BCS Frank : Why no diagnosis? BCS Frank : ... ohh, you mean replacing the coils? AFL Don : Without the Apple 2GS to drive it, the monitor normally looks dead... They'll waste a LOT of time since it doesn't work like a tv set or an ordinary composite monitor. AFC Softy : Frank.... when I took the monitor in the first time to ComputerLand.... the labor ran me more than the board did. AFL Don : Plus, a lot of tv shops have a flat-rate charge, so you'll want to negotiate for a simple solder job first. AFC Softy : They automatically charge you a minimum "diagnostic" charge. AFL Don : If they won't cut a deal, go to another shop.. I'd say $20 tops for the job. (It takes me about 7 minutes now, having done lots of AFC Softy : "Lots"??? AFC Softy : :o AFL Don : Yeah, lots... BCS Frank : That's assuming that that's what needs replacing. AFC Softy : How many have you done, Don?? AFL Don : Frank, it's almost a lead-pipe cinch, given the frequency of the problem and the specificity of the symptoms... BCS Frank : .. and what's the patient survival ratio? :) AFL Don : 100%, Frank... AFL Don : I forget the exact number, Larry. Plenty... AFC Softy : Don: First time failures? Or repeats?? BCS Frank : Nice to have something simple in the wide world of computing. :) AFL Don : The repeats have been units where I changed out one peaking coil only to have the coil for another color fail later... That's why I do 'em all at the same time... AFC Marvin : Don, do you keep a stock of 22-uH coils on hand now? I should get some next time I am at the electronics store. AFL Don : I used all the peaking coils the local stores had, then went to adjustable inductors, then tried just shorting the old coils and that's just as good... BCS Frank : Just shorting the coils? Then why have them in the first place? AFL Don : The problem is, if you can find an electronic store that still has peaking coils, they don't know what to charge for them. For mine, they hit me for $2... AFC Softy : Frank.... because they're there. ;) AFC Marvin : :) BCS Frank : Ahhh... the Hillary (Sir Edmond) effect... AFL Don : Theoretically, Frank, they're needed to punch up the luminance bandpass, compensating for stray capacitance. Actually, though, the difference is not very visible. If you run your monitor at medium brightness, the spot probably blooms enough to swamp out the effect of the coil. 22uH isn't very much inductance... Even at the video frequency at the top end.. AFC Softy : Nope.... these are petty small inductors. BCS Frank : Is there a write up of this posted in the library? AFC Softy : pretty small ones too.. ;) AFL Don : I'd replace the coil, though, just on general principles, but if you can't find one, a short is ok... AFC Softy : Frank... yup.... do a QuickFind on "Kermit". :) AFL Don : Yes, Frank, there's an article I wrote when I first diagnosed the problem called RGB-->G-->RGB BCS Frank : Amazing... sounds like a MacGyver fix. AFL Don : It's in the AHW "Best of" library... BCS Frank : Kermit??? Like, green? ahh.. ok. AFL Don : I gave that name to the article because my monitor went all green when it failed. It isn't easy being green! AFL Don : I've heard from many users who've saved big bux as a result. The article was reprinted in several UG Journals... Got lotsa good feedback AFC Softy : Too bad there isn't a schematic somewhere of the board. BCS Frank : I think I've seen that first article... AFL Don : ...a schematic was only necessary when trying to dope out the problem originally when my monitor first failed... Once the diagnosis was made, it's only necessary to find the component on the board, schematic doesn't help much... AFC Softy : Don... too bad you didn't corner the market on 22-uH peaking coils. ;) AFL Don : Right Larry! I thought about marketing a kit by mail! BCS Frank : What about the hazards of opening monitors... hitting a residual high voltage charge? AFC Softy : Yeah.... but for dumdums like me... it helps to locate the right component. :) AFL Don : Just don't plug it in when it's out of the case. Don't hit the CRT with anything while it's unprotected. As far as residual charge in the picture tube, as long as you don't unplug the high voltage lead there shouldn't be a problem. Anyone who's not sure of their ability to do the repair, though should pay somebody to do it. Biggest hazard is working on the pc board. If you don't know how, you can fry the trace off the board... BCS Frank : ... and don't attempt repairs while in the shower? AFC Softy : The board is attached directly to the back of the picture tube and all of the components are pretty easy to get at. AFC Softy : Frank.... just don't hit the tube in the side and you'll be okay. :) AFC Softy : I took a look at mine last week after it went south and I was amazed as to how AFC Softy : sloppy the finish work was on the video board. BCS Frank : Frying the equipment is one level of risk. Damaging my own little fingers is a higher level! AFL Don : The peaking coils are on the little board that sits on the neck of the CRT. Very easy to get at... AFC Softy : There was all sorts of solder rosin left on the board. AFC Softy : Not that the rosin does anything.... I just thing it's sloppy. AFL Don : The board is soldered by automated equipment, which usually works ok... Not supposed to be on display AFC Marvin : You need a small-tip soldering iron that will let you solder the small tabs on the pc board. I have BCS Frank : That's one PCB that's not normally "open to the public." AFC Marvin : temperature regulated iron (700 degrees F) that I use for such work. AFL Don : I have a cheapy Radio Shack iron that switches between 15W and 30W... It's ok... AFC Softy : A 15 watt iron would be sufficient wouldn't it? Or would a 25 be better? AFL Don : Buy some SolderWick to remove the solder from the pads... That's very helpful... AFC Softy : Helps to have a solder-removal tool or wick too. AFL Don : If a 15 W iron'll do it, a 25 W iron is more likely to delaminate the trace... BCS Frank : I've got a chip removal project coming up... taking off a disk controller chip from a 286 mother board AFC Softy : Just don't get out the big 220W Weller gun.... ;) BCS Frank : ... surface mount. Think I'll try some of that wick too. AFC Marvin : You need to heat up the solder get it to flow and then get off the pc pad. You don't want to dwell AFL Don : <--has a 450W Weller gun! (But not for PC Board work!) AFC Marvin : on it or it will delaminate. AFC Softy : The wick really works well with small solder points. AFL Don : SolderWick is magic... I've got a couple of vacuum desoldering gadgets, but the wick works best for AFL Don : me... AFC Marvin : And I thought my 120 watt Weller gun was a big one. I don't think I have seen a 450 watt model. That AFC Softy : I've used the vacuum removers, but they can get in the way when I work AFC Marvin : is the one you use for fabricating rain gutters. AFC Softy : on tiny components. BCS Frank : So the MAPP gas torch is out? AFL Don : Not quite, Marvin, but it does do heavy work rather well. Good for soldering ground wires to copper chassis connections! AFC Marvin : Yes Frank, the MAPP gas torch should be used for bigger projects. I have used MAPP gas for radio station grounding systems around towers. BCS Frank : Hmmm... you must have a -big- computer set up. AFL Don : ...reminds me, I used a plumber's propane torch to put coax fittings on RG-8U at KPOL... AFL Don : Up on the side of the hill, away from power. Wonder they worked when I finished! AFC Softy : :D BCS Frank : Robert, Hi :) AFC Softy : Hey.... when ya gotta have it... :) AFL Don : Hello, Robt! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! Robt Ordal : Hi guys! AFC Softy : Well... I need to mosey on out... have to get some things done... take my AFC Softy : medication and all that. AFL Don : Get your monitor going, Larry! BCS Frank : See ya Larry :) AFC Softy : <-- had all four wisdom teeth pulled Friday :o AFL Don : Oops! AFC Marvin : Goodnight Larry! BCS Frank : ouch! Robt Ordal : What software do you have? AFC Softy : I will Don... :) AFL Don : Who, Robt? For what? Robt Ordal : What is your question? BCS Frank : Hmmm... I've got AppleWorks, some pinball games.... BCS Frank : ... a frog dissection thingie.... AFL Don : I don't understand YOUR question! BCS Frank : ... all sorts of software. Robt Ordal : I've got a lot of games, but few great ones AFL Don : ...a frog dissection thingie, Frank? AFL Don : What computer are you using, Robt? BCS Frank : Yeah... operation frog, or something like that... Robt Ordal : A Mac LC III BCS Frank : simulates the dissection of a frog... and reassembly. AFL Don : Ah... takes me back to biology... Rana pipiens and all... Robt Ordal : What do you mean? AFL Don : Are you looking for Mac games, Robt? Robt Ordal : Yes. Do you have any good ones? AFL Don : Not really, Robt... This is the Apple-2 area here, you'll find Mac games in the Mac area... BCS Frank : Lemmings is good on the Mac.... Robt Ordal : I know that, but do you even have a Mac? BCS Frank : and I've heard good things about SimCity 2000. BCS Frank : I'm on a Mac right now. AFL Don : Try Keyword MGM for Mac Games... AFL Don : I'm on a Mac, too, but not into games... Robt Ordal : By the way, I have Lemmings and simCity 2000 BCS Frank : Ahhh, then you're ahead of me already. :) Robt Ordal : Do either of you have shareware? BCS Frank : Hmmm... yup. AFL Don : ...some Robt Ordal : What is it? BCS Frank : well... an example... ShrinkIt. AFL Don : Nothing remarkable... BCS Frank : It was shareware when I got it though now it's freeware. Robt Ordal : ShrinkIt? I've never heard of that, is it good? AFL Don : It's an Apple-2 utility, Robt... Robt Ordal : Oh, now that I think of it, I have that for my Mac BCS Frank : Very roughly like StuffIt for the Apple II line.. so good that Apple eventually hired the author to help write Mac System 7.0. AFL Don : Apple-2 computers are different from Macs, different software packages... Robt Ordal : I must have had a memory laps Robt Ordal : What system do you have? BCS Frank : On Mac, System 6, on Apple II GS/OS 6. BCS Frank : Mac ^^ Robt Ordal : I've got 7. Robt Ordal : Do either of you know how to program? BCS Frank : I haven't bothered, just use the Mac as a telecomm utility box. AFL Don : Yes, but choose not to... BCS Frank : little bits. Robt Ordal : I know a little BASIC, but not the whole language. BCS Frank : What kind of stuff you you like to write? AFL Don : Well, I've gotta sign off soon here... Robt, don't forget to try Keyword MGM... I think you'll AFL Don : find what you're looking for there... Robt Ordal : Just handy stuff like checkbook balancers and such. BCS Frank : Night, Don :) BCS Frank : I've gotta be meandering on myself as well.... BCS Frank : Night, Don, Marvin, Robert : Robt Ordal : Guys, I'm a sixth grader and I have to finish my homework. In other words, I must leave right now. AFL Don : Thanks for dropping by, Robt! Hope to see you again... Robt Ordal : You too. AFC Marvin : Good night to all. I have to run too. Getting late. AFL Don : Great, Robt! I'm a college professor here, I believe in lots of homework! Robt Ordal : Gee thanks. AFL Don : Good night all, See you later Frank... 5/16/94 8:51:59 PM Closing Log file.