5/23/94 6:19:45 PM Opening ÒChat Log 5/23/94Ó for recording. AFC Softy : Hi Don :) AFL Don : Hello, Larry... AFC Softy : Well.... first my monitor goes... now I think the cpu is about to croak. :/ AFL Don : What're the symptoms? You must be hard on your equipment! AFC Softy : It's just crashing randomly into the monitor. AFC Softy : Then it wont boot... AFC Softy : $0308 errors... AFL Don : Will it boot reliably from a floppy? AFC Softy : $681 errors... AFC Softy : BRAM was zapped back to default. AFL Don : Gotta be battery related, then... AFL Don : What's your battery voltage? AFC Softy : I did a self test last night and got a Bad System code of $040000000 AFC Softy : ..which I never got before. AFL Don : Hmmm. Do you have an accelerator? AFC Softy : I haven't checked the battery. But it is old. AFL Don : Change it... Almost a lead pipe cinch, if you lose BRAM settings. AFC Softy : Yep... a Zip... I tried a self test tonight and got the usual 0C0000005 error. AFA Fixit : Hi guys AFL Don : When it gets flaky, it could be producing all kinds of weird conflicts. AFL Don : Hi Walt! AFC Softy : Hi Walt... AFC Softy : Well... I think this episode has convinced me to go get the PowerBook this week AFL Don : I'd change the battery first, then pull the ZIP for a test before condemning the 2GS... AFL Don : Just between us, you'll be amazed at how much is available on AO to Mac users that you never see AFL Don : on a 2GS... AFC Softy : I can get a refurbished PB 180 4/120 for about mid $1800. AFL Don : I'd sure consider going to one of the new ones they just brought out, some of 'em are not much AFL Don : more... AFC Softy : The 180 is no longer in production so once they go.... they're gone. AFL Don : Refurbished scares me... AFC Softy : Don... I played with the 520... the trackpad is nice... but it's no easier to AFL Don : Did you try Elite Computers? That's where I bought my new PB170 after they were discontinued.. AFC Softy : use than the trackball... AFL Don : I 's'pose... AFC Softy : Besides... the 520s use passive matrix screens. AFL Don : Yeah, that's a bummer. I sure like the active-matrix screen. AFL Don : Another drawback, no FPU, and you really need those animals... AFC Softy : Well... there's a software FPU available... but some programs won't work with AFC Softy : it due to a bug in the LC040 itself. AFL Don : Hello, Kate! TallStuff : Hi Don :) AFL Don : Nice to have the FPU on silicon, though... AFC Softy : Motorola knows about it and plans to fix it but nobody seems to know if it was AFC Softy : fixed for the PBs rolled out. AFC Softy : {{{{{{ShortKateBeckyStuff}}}}}}} ;) TallStuff : {{{{{{{{{Larry}}}}}}}}} AFC Softy : Anyway... I think I'm going through Creative Computers for the PB. AFC Softy : They have a store in San Diego... with 4 more in LA. AFC Softy : Prices are very competitive. AFL Don : The refurbished bit is still scary... AFC Softy : For what the salesman told me... these are Apple refurbished. IE... they're AFC Softy : systems returned for one reason or another and were repaired. AFL Don : Elite had a bunch of refurbished 170's, but I paid a little more to start out with my own troubles. AFL Don : I 's'pose as long as you have the full warranty... AFC Softy : They come with a 90 day from Apple. For $169 I can a 4-year service warranty AFC Softy : via General Electric. AFL Don : That might not be a bad idea... Apple's prices are outa sight for warranty, $169/4 per year is more like it AFL Don : Does GE send the appliance guy out in his truck if you need service ...they did a good job on my trash compactor... AFC Softy : hehehe... I don't know... but it says in Creative's mail order catalog that AFC Softy : it's on "on site" type of service. AFC Softy : I bought my last two cars from GE.... ;) AFC Softy : (their Fleet Services division anyway. :) AFL Don : Could be a good deal... Apple says the backlights are good for only about 15 months... AFL Don : I run mine at the lowest setting... AFL Don : GE does have the resources to do it right, if they decide to... AFC Softy : Anyway... back to my weird cpu symptoms...... I'm surprised it's still working AFC Softy : at the moment. AFC Softy : I still wondering if the power supply might be getting tired as well. AFC Softy : It's the original. AFC Softy : 7-1/2 years old. AFL Don : Measure the bus voltages. Voltage is voltage, in the absence of glitchy stuff you can see with a Ôscope. AFL Don : Could be the power-supply connector to the motherboard. You might try exercising the AFL Don : plug a few times. That's not an unusual problem. AFC Softy : I've wiggled it around some.... but maybe I should disconnect it completely and AFC Softy : shove it back down. AFL Don : After a few years, the contact resistance builds unless the plug is removed and replaced, scrubbing AFC Softy : Last time I did that I didn't have any problems for quite some time. AFL Don : the surfaces. Wiggling isn't the same as R & R. If it cured it once, then you originally had a problem that is likely to recur AFC Softy : Didn't think so... I was too lazy to get something to pry open the locking tabs AFC Softy : on the connector. AFC Softy : :) AFL Don : Well, you'll have to do that to replace the motherboard! AFC Softy : :) AFC Softy : True.... and if I do... at least I'll only be an hour's drive from Alltech AFC Softy : after July. :) AFL Don : Oh, that's right, you're moving down south! AFC Softy : Uh huh.... AFC Softy : Oh... I got to drop by the new Fry's in Fountain Valley (LA). Huge store. AFC Softy : Everything is in a Roman Empire motif. :) AFC Softy : Speaking of voltmeters... I saw some DMMs using LCD displays with oscilloscope AFC Softy : capability. AFL Don : Yeah, I've seen those... What'll they think of next? AFA Fixit : So that's what they did there. Each Fry's has a different theme. AFL Don : 'scope displays have to show a LOT more detail to be really useful, though. Still, couldn't hurt... AFL Don : My local Fry's is early Price Club motif... AFA Fixit : Used to be the big thing was a digital voltmeter on the scope. AFL Don : What goes around comes around, I guess... AFC Softy : Yeah Walt... the one in Torrance is a jungle. AFA Fixit : Which one is that, Don? AFL Don : Palo Alto... AFA Fixit : I thought that one was a "western" motif. AFL Don : only one I've been to... AFC Softy : Don... I see them getting down to something like a Newton sized PDA. AFL Don : Hi Frank.. AFC Softy : Hi Frank.. :) AFA Fixit : Howdy Frank. BCS Frank : Hi Guys :) AFL Don : Oh, maybe so, I didn't notice. I thought the Western stuff was left over from some supermarket. AFC Softy : Not only you can get a scope reading.... you can fax the results to somewhere BCS Frank : Talking about a GS-PDA? AFC Softy : else :) AFC Softy : Frank.. nope... DMVs with oscilloscopes built in. :) AFL Don : DVM's with LCD 'o'scope displays... AFC Softy : er... DVMs. :) BCS Frank : Ahhh... BCS Frank : Dept. Motor Vehicles? AFC Softy : :) AFL Don : Giggle... AFC Softy : heh... I had to pay my registration fees last Friday.... BCS Frank : dig. volt massagers, I presume. AFC Softy : They don't take them in their offices any more. AFC Softy : Supposed to be all by mail now.... AFC Softy : Like I trust Sacramento to get it right after seeing their 44 million dollar AFC Softy : computer system go down the drain. :) BCS Frank : Some of that stuff is going to be electronic... from shopping mall kiosk. AFA Fixit : I read about that. Major snafu that. AFL Don : I missed that... BCS Frank : What happened? CA did same deal as the air controllers? AFC Softy : Frank... CA's DMV spent 44 million over they last 5-7 years trying to get their AFC Softy : "new" computer system to work right. AFA Fixit : That's what you get for hiring an accounting firm to develop your software. AFC Softy : It hasn't worked from day 1... and the DMV's boss finally said enough was BCS Frank : Like the FAA... their project for new computerized system was to be installed in '88... now 2004. AFC Softy : enough. AFC Softy : So they've decided to scrap the entire system. BCS Frank : Amazing... good for him! AFC Softy : Frank... he had no choice. It's an election year. ;) BCS Frank : :) BCS Frank : Ahhh.... the people's term-limitation program. :) AFC Softy : Well... DMV is an appointed position... but it's still an election year. :) AFL Don : Didja all hear the news about the Big Red Computer Club? BCS Frank : Yes... too bad. AFL Don : ...sad days... BCS Frank : Any news about how the "will" will read? BCS Frank : They have rights to a lot of stuff. AFC Softy : Don't fret too much... I'll bet ya dollar to donuts that Joe Kohn may try to AFC Softy : take over some of their stuff. AFL Don : I hope Joe Kohn is named in the will... BCS Frank : I'm rooting for Joe.... but that';s a lot to swallow. BCS Frank : He may need/want some help. AFL Don : He can make it go if anybody can... AFC Softy : He just started with his first program contract. BCS Frank : true... BCS Frank : Right, the Printshop driver? AFC Softy : No... he has Contacts GS now. AFL Don : That's gotta be a winner! AFC Softy : But the PS driver is another one. BCS Frank : Ahhh... that's two projects then. :) AFC Softy : Not quite.... one project... and one product. :) BCS Frank : ok... AFC Softy : Oh.. Walt... what's a good modem to get for the PowerBook? Global Village? BCS Frank : When is BRCC closing the doors? Not until the end of the year? AFL Don : On it now! AFA Fixit : Depends on your budget. AFC Softy : Contacts GS was sold through Simplexity... .but Bill Heineman decided to AFC Softy : change distributors for some reason. BCS Frank : Does that mean Simplexity is hitting bumps in the road? AFC Softy : Don.... I'm leaning towards the Gold model. AFC Softy : Frank... I don't think so. AFL Don : That's good, too... I don't really use the fastest option, although Marvin and I tried to AFL Don : on a direct connect once.... AFL Don : The FAX end of it is great, and the OCR software that comes with it works great... AFA Fixit : I consider v.32terbo a waste of money. AFL Don : ...probably AFC Softy : That's what I was considering... I didn't think $60 more just to get 19.2Kbps AFA Fixit : There weren't enough companies that went with it. AFC Softy : over 14.4 was worth it. AFL Don : There's going to be a different standard for the fastest option, so far GV hasn't said if there'd AFA Fixit : vFast is more like it. 28.8 AFL Don : be an upgrade path... AFC Softy : Personally I don't think I'll really need that kind of speed for a while. AFC Softy : Hell, I've been happy with 2400 up until this year. :) AFL Don : If you're going to do faxing, though, the 14.4 option is nice. At least 9600 receive... AFL Don : other people won't fax you often if they have to do it at 2400... AFL Don : ...long distance, any way. AFC Softy : The Gold model is 14.4 for all modes. BCS Frank : What's the "office" standard? AFC Softy : re {{{{Stuff}}}}} :* TallStuff : re {{{{Larry}}}} AFC Softy : 14.4 data...14.4 fax send and receive. BCS Frank : K! :) AFA Fixit : The "office" standard is v.32bis. TallStuff : Hiya Frank :) AFL Don : I exchange faxes with a ham friend in Southern Calif. at 14.4, and they fly! AFA Fixit : There's always the Supra PowerBook modem for $40 less, but the OCR software option brings it up to AFA Fixit : the price of the Gold AFC Softy : Anyway... I have my first Mac program... MacAOL 2.1 is bundled with this AFC Softy : month's MacWorld. :) AFL Don : Wish everyone had that speed. Another friend has a bronze, but it costs me about 60 cents/page to AFL Don : fax him... AFA Fixit : Haven't found a fax machine that I can connect to over 9600 bps. AFL Don : The 14.4 is between fax modems... BCS Frank : Hi, Paul :) AFL Don : Hello, Paul! PaulBZ : What's happening tonight? AFL Don : Not a lot... Slow beginning. Just waiting for you! BCS Frank : talking Mac faxes. BCS Frank : Heavy duty drain on the system tonight.... PaulBZ : Well I've had an interesting week. BCS Frank : the Star Trek wake is maxxed out. AFL Don : Would you like to talk about it? BCS Frank : yes.... PaulBZ : I solved a baffling problem with IWII that was chewing up ribbons PaulBZ : and making braille paper copies. AFL Don : Howso? PaulBZ : Anyone venture a solution BCS Frank : ekkk... unintended braille? AFL Don : I've heard of two causes for that... BCS Frank : set to too high an impact? AFL Don : Stuck pin in the printhead, and a broken plastic guide next to the head... BCS Frank : DIP switches at non-factory setting? PaulBZ : Nope! + Nope PaulBZ : and Nope AFL Don : Cheap ribbons? BCS Frank : Hmmmm..... PaulBZ : no BCS Frank : Running blotter paper? AFL Don : Gonna keep us in suspense, huh? PaulBZ : clue prints so-so in one direction but poorly in reverse direction. AFA Fixit : Paper thickness setting wrong? PaulBZ : no BCS Frank : unlubed cross bar? PaulBZ : almost BCS Frank : gravitometric cross wind? PaulBZ : right BCS Frank : corroded or bent cross bar> AFL Don : I've had ribbons that printed better one way than the other, because they were binding in feed pack. PaulBZ : How about....... PaulBZ : improperly-tensioned drive belt!!!!! BCS Frank : Stretched? AFL Don : Huh! Hadn't thought of that. Probably about time for that to happen to a lot of IW2s... PaulBZ : maybe BCS Frank : How easy to check? ... and to reset? PaulBZ : The way we set it is to gently pinch the belt with the carriage to one end. PaulBZ : You should get about half space deflection. If you can bring the belts together PaulBZ : they are loose PaulBZ : Gently pinch BCS Frank : and re-tensioning? PaulBZ : I suspect Apple dealers have a tensioning tool to do this. AFA Fixit : Never had an IWII. The older ImageWriters used a cable instead of a belt AFL Don : ...well, actually I'm about to retire my IW2, do almost everything on the DeskJet anyway.. PaulBZ : On the right side the idler has a Phillips screw and pivoting arm to adjust AFL Don : Belts have a finite life in everything. I need to rebelt my VCR, my Toyota, my Sony Audio Cassette... BCS Frank : "Apple dealers?" Is that like the tooth fairy? PaulBZ : the tension. Very easy to do except for determining the correct tension AFL Don : Local fruit stand, Frank... Also sells bananas, pears, etc. AFA Fixit : No, the tooth fairy leaves you with something to put in your pocket. PaulBZ : I just installed a HP IIP+ laser printer on my GS and a HP paintwriter ink PaulBZ : jet on my son's GS AFL Don : Great, how do they work? BCS Frank : PaulBZ : Now we can print high-resolution color and very nice laser quality print . PaulBZ : They both give 300 dpi BCS Frank : How about AppleWorks ASCII output? PaulBZ : I also figured out how to run a HP 57.6k serial interface off a SSC card PaulBZ : if one wants to put a mac laser printer on a 2e. BCS Frank : Double the voltage? AFA Fixit : You mean that HP has finally put a decent serial port on one of their printers? PaulBZ : APW and PT3 print perfectly PaulBZ : This PaintWriter which is several years old has only a 57.6k interface PaulBZ : Frank one of the Paintriters is going to be raffled at the next NEET meeting BCS Frank : Hmmm.... :) BCS Frank : That -is- interesting! PaulBZ : These are band new in the original boxes PaulBZ : excuse lousy spelling BCS Frank : My trusty rusty IWII could use a desk partner. BCS Frank : At a guess that'll run off an SE as well, right? PaulBZ : Any Mac PaulBZ : It was made for the Mac's BCS Frank : BCS Frank : Otherwise linked by DiskNet. AFL Don : ...Hate to bug out, just as the party's getting good, but I've got a lot of work to do tonight... PaulBZ : Just got Scarlett with announcement that 1994 is their last year for BRCC. BCS Frank : Yes... a shame. AFL Don : Thanks for the info re: the IW2 etc., Paul! PaulBZ : OK BCS Frank : Night, Don :) AFL Don : See everybody next week? AFL Don : Nytol! BCS Frank : Likely so... AFA Fixit : If I remember ;> TallStuff : I wont let you forget Fixit :) BCS Frank : :) AFA Fixit : I'm sure you won't my love. ;* AFA Fixit : Howdy ECarroll. Welcome to the Apple II Hardware Forum chat. ECarroll : Hello AFA Fixit : Anything we can help you with tonight? BCS Frank : Hi, ECarroll :) ECarroll : What is the Subject of Hardware youÕre chatting about tonight? ECarroll : Hi Frank ECarroll : Well the only Problem I am having is a Software Problem BCS Frank : What be it? AFA Fixit : Tonight's subject is "Cleaning your mouse", but we don't usually stick to the subject. PaulBZ : BTW how do you catch the little bugger to clean him? ECarroll : I know that one take out that ball and clean it BCS Frank : probably tickles like all get out. ECarroll : I have a IIGS with system 6.01 BCS Frank : Good choice :) PaulBZ : Frank knows the answer ECarroll : The Desktop locks up sometimes when itÕs been sitting a while BCS Frank : .... right.... just hope it's the right question. :) PaulBZ : describe the hardware configuration BCS Frank : "locks up?" Non-responsive to both keybd and mouse? PaulBZ : Loose connector on keyboard??????? ECarroll : Hard drive is a 85-meg Shadow with a RamFAST Card PaulBZ : Is there a joystick plugged in BCS Frank : Hmmm... loose connector on keyboard would give 911 errors..... ECarroll : Yea I do have a Joystick plugged in PaulBZ : Also locks up system!!!! PaulBZ : remove joystick BCS Frank : Ahh... here's test..... BCS Frank : What Paul said, remove joystick. ECarroll : Some one told me to take off Pointless and it would stop locking up BCS Frank : The buttons on the stick map to the BCS Frank : open Apple and Option keys..... BCS Frank : If the joystick buttons stick, you're stuck. BCS Frank : Re Pointless... have you tried a shift-boot? ECarroll : Can the joystick cause it to lock up I can't even do a Open-Apple control reset ECarroll : when it locks BCS Frank : Joystick -can- lock screen... not sure it's that in your case, BCS Frank : but that's easy to check by removing joystick for awhile. ECarroll : Re Pointless you can't BCS Frank : If it still locks up same way the Joystick is innocent. PaulBZ : How about keyboard connector on circuit board BCS Frank : Loose connectors on ADB are ECarroll : itÕs when it sits that when it locks PaulBZ : If it locks up remove keyboard and try just mouse into keyboard connecter PaulBZ : at computer BCS Frank : a problem..... one experiment is to reverse the keyboard BCS Frank : connections... mouse to the other side of the keyboard. BCS Frank : Even better is if you have a trackball with an ADB through connector.... BCS Frank : then you can depend on only one keyboard connector. ECarroll : I don't lock up any place but the desktop so it can't be the ADB connector PaulBZ : I also had this happen with a defective mouse BCS Frank : Never happens in any other program? ECarroll : No BCS Frank : ... I'm still wondering about trying a shift boot. AFA Fixit : You might try a clean system install if you haven't already. Rename the system folder and install... AFA Fixit : a new one. BCS Frank : I know that blocks Pointless... that's part of the reason to try it. ECarroll : I was told that 6.01 has a problem with pointless ECarroll : Is that true BCS Frank : There are some work arounds with that.... BCS Frank : the simplest is to have a bitmap font for each TT font. PaulBZ : See you all later. BCS Frank : So if you have a TT font of San Francisco, make and keep a 1 point bitmap of the same font in the same BCS Frank : folder. ECarroll : I did not have a problem until I install Pointless BCS Frank : Bye, Paul, thanks for that meeting note. :) PaulBZ : ok AFA Fixit : Well, then that definitely points the finger at Pointless. AFA Fixit : Sounds like Frank has a workaround for the problem. BCS Frank : You can also disables Pointless by going to the Pointless icon, selecting the icon and opening the ECarroll : I heard their a update that will fix that problem BCS Frank : icon info window.... and disable using the check box. BCS Frank : I think there either is or will soon be a smoother fix, but the workaround was documented very quickly BCS Frank : ...it's in the message areas here on AOL. BCS Frank : Try those solutions.... if either or both works then you've got the problem fairly well cornered. BCS Frank : Hi, London :) LONDON1813 : Anyone know if Update 3.0 is on line yet? BCS Frank : ahhh... what -is- Update 3.0? LONDON1813 : A System Update for Mac's. ECarroll : I have to cold boot when it locks up BCS Frank : Hmm... you've found the Apple II (not Mac) Hardware Forum... I don't know the answer. AFA Fixit : Well folks, I'm off to bed. See you next week. BCS Frank : Night, Walt! :) ECarroll : see yea thanks for all your help 5/23/94 11:12:33 PM Closing Log file.