APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG January 16, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: synthLAB/MIDI synth Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM) Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dig (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Andy Stein Fred, are you the guy who does all that neato music stuff?? FredChopin I am working on Schumanns entire Op.68 AFC Eddie Sounds great. Do you have Mastertracks, Fred? Andy Stein Neat! Fred, do you find Diversi-zTune better than Synthlab, like me? FredChopin Nope Eddie, but I do have Diversi-Tune. FredChopin But I am not sure on comparison yet :) Andy Stein Which do you all like better- Diversi-Tune or Synthlab? Mr Toaster I have questions regarding SynthLAB and MIDISynth. Is Cecys on tonight? AFL JoyceM No, Toaster he isn't. AFC Eddie As far as creating music goes, Diversitune wins hands down. As far as instrument sounds go, SynthLAB wins hands down. Mr Toaster Well, of course... SynthLAB is not yet complete. Andy Stein Really. That's interesting. How so Andy Stein Even with its lack of editing capabilities? AFC Eddie Diversitune has lots of editing. Mr Toaster Has anyone else tried Parik's NDA? AFL JoyceM Yes. Andy Stein I didn't realize that. I guess I just assume a GUI interface has better editing tool. AFC Eddie Yes, it's great. Mr Toaster I can't get it to work. FredChopin We need more songs like Presto Agitato for DiversiTune AFC Eddie SynthLAB has no editing. Andy Stein Great NDA! Mr Toaster The NDA won't load whatsoever. It just beeps and hangs the computer. Andy Stein I guess that means Diversi-Tune has better editing! :) AFC Eddie That is, no editing for songs. You can edit instruments. Mr Toaster Do you need a MIDI card installed to use the NDA? Andy Stein How much memory do you have, Toaster? Hard drive? AFC Eddie No, Toast. Mr Toaster 1.25mb 40MB Vulcan ROM 01 AFL JoyceM ....let me make some announcements first then we can get started . First of all, if you have been under a rock lately, synthLAB is now in our library and we have lots, lots of song files. AFL JoyceM NEXT - due to the world events, our chat will be informal and we can discuss what you all want. Those who want to say can, but I will let my staff leave if they so desire. Andy Stein Hmmm... The 1.25 Megabytes could be the problem. What operating system? 5.0.2, 5.0.3, or 5.0.4? Mr Toaster 5.0.4 AFC Eddie Sure the NDA is activated, Toast? Andy Stein That sounds like the problem, Toaster. 5.0.4 requires a minimum of 1 Meg, and with only .25 more than the minimum, more than one NDA could crash your system. Mr Toaster Okay, I'll try it with 5.0.3. Will that work? AFC Eddie Try deactivating other Da's, Toast. Andy Stein Well, do you have any NDAs you could temporarily deactive, Toaster? Mr Toaster I tried that using FontDA installer, I deactivated everything I could AFC Eddie Try deactivating the traditional way. Mr Toaster Okay, I can do that. AFC Eddie The installer doesn't totally deactivate. FredChopin Can anyone explain why my MIDI sometimes dies out while I am recording in Audio Animator. AFC Eddie What do you mean by die out, Fred? Andy Stein What are everyone's recommendations for the best Diversi-Tune and Synthlab song downloads? AFC Eddie Mine, of course! FredChopin Well..as I am recording it stops recording Mr Toaster Andy, go with the GreenWings volumes Andy Stein What are yours, Eddie? I have lots of the GreenWings! Great songs! AFC Eddie Suggestion, Fred. Does the AA software have a feature for record filter? FredChopin yes Mr Toaster The only problem I have found with the GreenWings volumes is that they don't have the necessary banks. have the .bnk files in the GSHK file. AFC Eddie Andy, try Star Trek, New Generation and Phantom of Opera. More coming! Mr Toaster Can AMS upload those so I can play half the SynthLAB songs I have? Andy Stein I have both Star Trek and Phantom of the Opera. Great! Good job! AFC Eddie They're available now, Toast! FredChopin I havent tried Phantom of the Opera Andy Stein Thanks for the songs, Eddie! Andy Stein Toaster, they have most of the banks here. Mr Toaster To get dox for SynthLAB, we have to pay APDA, right? AFL JoyceM Yes, Toaster. AFC Eddie DanW190 and I are putting together a series of SL songs. Our next should be up soon. Mr Toaster Eddie, how do you put together these songs? Are you using SynthLAB to record? Or do you convert from something else? Andy Stein I would LOVE to hear some great classical songs! Mr Toaster I agree with classical request Andy. AFC Eddie No. Starting with other forms, such as Diversitune and Music Studio, then converting to MIDI, then to SL. Mr Toaster Convert to MIDI using...? AFC Eddie Convert to MIDI by using my external sequencer, Toast. ELECTMUSIC Eddie... how are you converting from MStudio to Slab? Mr Toaster Ahh, okay. Guess it would help if I had one. ELECTMUSIC Ok AFC Eddie Fist, MStudio MIDI out to my sequencer, then back to MTPro. Mr Toaster I noticed that SL uses $D5 files like SSmith. Shouldn't there be an easy conversion? ELECTMUSIC Eddie... is this all on one track? AFC Eddie No. Starts out as one MTPro track, then strip data. Andy Stein Does everyone agree that Diversi-Tune has better sound QUALITY than Synthlab? ELECTMUSIC Andy, I don't agree AFC Eddie Neither do I, Andy. Andy Stein And is Synthlab better than Soundsmith, quality-wise? Keith LTD what is SL for starters Mr Toaster Yeah, what is the difference in sound between SS and SL? Mr Toaster SL is SynthLAB, a sound program written by Mark Cecys for Apple. It is accompanied by Tool035, which plays songs in SynthLAB format. Download under the AMS Library. Along with other support files and music files. AFC Eddie SL sounds support the new MIDIsynth tool, SS don't. Mr Toaster Does that answer your question Keith? Mr Toaster What is the sound difference between SL and SS? I mean, I can't really tell the difference? ELECTMUSIC Eddie or Gene.... does MStudio support the MIDI clock of MTPro? AFC Eddie No, Greg. Keith LTD I think so these files are online Mr Toaster Keith, was that to me? AFC Eddie At least in terms of Master/Slave. ELECTMUSIC Does it matter, during your conversion, for the timing if they don't? AFC Eddie It makes it tougher, Greg, as Gene will tell you about my attempts. Mr Toaster Eddie, what is the wave file for? AFC Eddie In what program, Toast? Mr Toaster .bnk has the instruments, but what is the .wav file for (in SL)? Mr Toaster (I have to admit, I don't really know what all the levers are for in SL.) AFC Eddie It goes along with the particular song, Toast. Mr Toaster All the controls, attack, etc. Mr Toaster Yeah, but what does it determine? AFC Eddie Those are for editing instrument sounds. Mr Toaster The .bnk file give the instrument waveforms, right? AFL JoyceM BTW, anyone who wants the official package of synthLAB from APDA, just send me a check in the amount of $28.00 and I will order it for you. Leave me E-mail if you are interested and I will give you the particulars. Mr Toaster Then what does the .wav file do? AFC Eddie I think it tells SL what instruments go with your song, Toast. Mr Toaster But all the songs use the same Synth.wav file even though they use different instruments. At least the songs that I have. ELECTMUSIC Toaster, the wave file contains the digitized samples for the instrument file the bnk contains the instrument design data that is set from synthLab,ie. those slider settings Mr Toaster Then what does the .bnk determine? Mr Toaster Does anyone else know why Apple came out w/MIDISynth? Why not SSmith? ELECTMUSIC Yes, because SSmith doesn't support MIDI Mr Toaster To me, I can't really tell the difference in snd quality btwn SL and SS. Okay, I didn't know that. AFL JoyceM There is much difference in the sound, Toaster. At least my tin ear tells me. Mr Toaster Isn't that just because Huibert is still on v.95? ELECTMUSIC Huibert needs to re access SSmith so it supports the new MIDI tool!!!! Mr Toaster Of course, he'd be stupid not to. ELECTMUSIC The new MIDI tool is a hundred times easier to use Mr Toaster Does it make for smaller files not to have to deal with all the sep. inst.files? ELECTMUSIC The separate inst files are very small... and give the songs so much more instrument color Mr Toaster Hmm, so you're saying SS is a better way to implement? Sound waveforms? ELECTMUSIC No, I am saying SLab is a very good way to implement music on the GS Mr Toaster Okay, my confusion. AFC Eddie I wish SS supported MIDI, tho. So easy to creat new insts with digitizing. That was to be our topic tonite. Mr Toaster I bet Huibert will implement MIDI soon... probly in the long-awaited v.1.0 ELECTMUSIC Eddie.... digitizing is limited for designing instruments on the GS it takes up tooooo much memory AFC Eddie True, but still possible. ELECTMUSIC I haven't used SSMith to any great degree, but the digitizing part is a limitation I would think even if he supports MIDI Mr Toaster Well, it would help to be able to more easily edit in SSmith. AFC Eddie I've created a few decent SS insts from my sound module. A bit noisy, tho. AFL JoyceM SSmith is difficult to write songs for - too tedious for me. Mr Toaster Keith, SoundSmith is another sound program. It is shareware and on AO. It's very good and will likely become popular. It is used by FTA, a French programming group in their demos. If you haven't already, I would suggest you download "Modulae". You have a IIGS, don't you? AFC Eddie Agreed, Joyce. I like to play my songs in. ELECTMUSIC What do you use to digitize the sounds AFC Eddie Sonic Blaster, Greg. ELECTMUSIC SBlaster files types are supported in SSMith? (ASIF?) AFC Eddie No, but after I save as raw binary file, I load it into Audiozap and save for SS. Keith LTD Mr I don't have any music programs yet whats best ELECTMUSIC OOhhhh... Eddie you are an expert in the conversion process Mr Toaster I would suggest SoundSmith and SynthLAB if you want cheap good progs. AFC Eddie Also, Instrument Designer saves as ASIF, and you can layer 2 samples. ELECTMUSIC Geez... I would like to seee some of your conversion processes posted Mr Toaster Eddie, come up with a program to cnvrt SS to SL. AFC Eddie Thanks, Greg, remember I posted the process for converting Mac MIDI to GS MIDI. Mr Toaster Keith, in terms of commercial programs, others could probably tell you better. Master Tracks Pro is one of the best, especially if you have a MIDI card & kbd Another popular one is Music Studio, by Activison, right? Also Diversi-Tune. Keith, it depends on what you want to do with a music program. If you want to listen to other's creations, I would suggest dwnlding SSMITH and SynthLAB. Also, you might dwnld SoundStudio or AudioZap to listen to digitized sounds. Keith LTD I do quite a bit of writing MR Mr Toaster Also ACER to unpack digitzed sound files. Keith LTD I like to listen to though ELECTMUSIC I have Inst Designer, but can't get it to recognize SBlaster files. AFC Eddie There is a way, Greg. First, in SB, save as raw data. Then, in Inst. Des., use load wave, not Open. You can load 2 waves at same time, save as one ASIF file! Even edit the wave shape! ELECTMUSIC Ok.. thanks Eddie AFL JoyceM Ed, but still no way to convert MusicStudio files or sounds? ELECTMUSIC Another one Eddie.... I would like to patch my SBlaster disk so that I can use the software on any GS and save the file without the need for a card. AFC Eddie Joyce, not unless you have an external sequencer. The Star Trek song we just did started out as Musicstudio! AFL JoyceM No external sequencer :( ELECTMUSIC Maybe on your next keyboard Joyce.... AFC Eddie Greg, don't know how to do that! SB software needs the card. AFL JoyceM Right, Greg..... :) AFC Eddie Joyce, if there's a MStudio song you REALLY want as a SL or other song, let me know. AFL JoyceM Okay, Ed....if I REALLY want one, I will let you know :) Thanks. Mr Toaster Eddie, here's another job for you or Parik: Write an INIT program that will play SL songs on startup. Keith LTD Thanks for the info by AFC Eddie There is one, Toast! Background Sound. Mr Toaster Background sound will run SL files? I didn't know that! AFC Eddie Yes. AFL JoyceM But Toaster, to get that version, you must send in the shareware fee to Parik to get this latest version. Right, Ed? AFC Eddie Yes, but not soundmaster, BGSound. AFL JoyceM Thanks all...and see you next week when our official chat will be on synthLAB! Thanks, all.....a rough night for all of us. America Online - 1991