=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG January 22, 1992 10 PM ET Topic: MusicStudio and More Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1992 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- FredW1726 Does anyone here use a SONIC BLASTER? AFC Eddie We probably all do. ELECTMUSIC I do FredW1726 Do you happen to know what version your software is? ELECTMUSIC You have one also Ed? AFC Eddie Yup. AFC Eddie I have 1.1. Which is almost the same as 1.0. But it's based on 5.04 instead of 5.02. So it comes with fewer digitized sounds. ELECTMUSIC Sounds about right Ed FredW1726 Here's my problem...I have 1.0 andit won't save RAW DATA correctly. Most of 1.0's sounds were on a second disk. AFC Eddie Does it save in other formats? ELECTMUSIC I have had a few EMails on a problem with setting record levels with SBlaster. FredW1726 Yes, well it saves in AE, haven't had need for 8:4 or 8:3 ELECTMUSIC Anyone else find the settings very tricky? FredW1726 Also, so you know what the max record rate is with your software? AFC Eddie I think we have 1.0 in our library somewhere, right? SkyRydr Joyce, are you the MIDI Guru? AFL JoyceM Not a MIDI guru, but close. Eddie is, as are Greg and Gene :) FredW1726 NO, the oscilloscope sets it nicely. No we don't have ANY working SB software. ELECTMUSIC Fred, you set the level with the Ocsilliscope? FredW1726 Yes I watch the signal on the Oscilloscope and adjust the slider till I get full screen deflection with no clipping. AFC Eddie The setting don't work right if an accelerator is turned on. AFL JoyceM But, Sky we all can help you :) FredW1726 I have no accelerator. ELECTMUSIC Do you use a Mike... or have you used any other sources? FredW1726 The SOnic Blaster System Software. I use both a mike and line level from a CD, VCR, etc. IS it possible for someone to upload a newer software version here? AFC Eddie Hmmmm, have you called AE? ELECTMUSIC Good Question, Fred FredW1726 The oscilloscope has worked nicely for setting levels. AFL JoyceM Sorry, Fred, we can't do that - copyrights, you know :) AFC Eddie I can't see how AE could object, since you need the card to use it... AFA Gene Isn't AE's customer support now a 900 ? AFL JoyceM I would call AE, as Eddie suggests. AFC Eddie But they might consent. ELECTMUSIC But Joyce, we have version 1.0 already there FredW1726 I figured since the AA software was here, that the SB software could be also. ELECTMUSIC Oh... maybe its AA software? FredW1726 We only have a demo of the SB software, we don't have 1.0 even. AFA Gene The AA software that's online is configured to "sense" for the presence of the AA card. I think the only SB software we have online is the demo, as the actual SB software (i think) doesn't sense for the SB card and therefore can be used with anything you can trick it into using. ELECTMUSIC I believe it does sense Gene FredW1726 I called AE, first I was told the update was $39, then later was told there was no update. ELECTMUSIC I couldn't save with it AFC Eddie Fred, do you have Audiozap or Hyperstudio? FredW1726 Yes I just downloaded AZ, I do not like it for the actual recording as well although it may be a good editting tool :) AFA Gene The SB? I thought it was an actual restricted version. If you're right greg, I see no reason why we shouldn't put the latest version up (as long as AE says ok) AFC Eddie You can download AudioZap and save to binary with it. ELECTMUSIC It worked up to the point I needed to save, then it said a SBlaster card was necessary ELECTMUSIC Yep, but ya can't save your work AFC Eddie Yes, I remember getting the same message. AFL JoyceM I will call them and see what they say. I want it in writing from them too. We are looking for Sonic Blaster software, right? version? AFC Eddie I agree - writing is best :) FredW1726 As it stands I must, save in AE and then convert in AZ. AFC Eddie 1.1, Joyce. ELECTMUSIC I believe we have a working version from Phil Mantuia FredW1726 I have 1.0 and it doesn't work...whatever version is newest I suppose. ELECTMUSIC Fred... I assume you have the card, right? FredW1726 A working version in the LIB's? Yes, the first month it was avaliable :) AFC Eddie Fred, what happens when you try to save to raw data? ELECTMUSIC Yes, cause you need the card inorder to use it correctly FredW1726 HThe file saved is only 0.5K should be >100K. AFC Eddie Did that happen repeatedly? FredW1726 This file causes errors when I try to read it with my software (PRODOS EOF reached). Yes, no matter what the sample size, the file is always 0.5K. ELECTMUSIC Fred... did you try the version we have online AFC Eddie Can you save with the demo, Greg? FredW1726 No, the title of both has DEMO in it, and warn it will not digitize or save. ELECTMUSIC I don't believe its a demo Ed. Could be wrong though AFL JoyceM BRB FredW1726 We have a working AA file , but as noted it won't work with the SB. >I tried :)< AFC Eddie Fred, I think you're gonna have to call AE on this one, and tell 'em you got a bum version. Or maybe they know the problem. FredW1726 I tried them twice...I can try again though. ELECTMUSIC Its been awhile since I looked at those files AFC Eddie If we can get consent, we can upload it. No guaranty it will work for you, tho. AFL JoyceM There are two SB demo's in our library...one Oct 1989 and one Jan 1989. Both are demos and won't save, etc. No version numbers given. FredW1726 OK, I'd really appreciate that. AFL JoyceM As I said, I will call them and see what they say. ELECTMUSIC GA SKY ELECTMUSIC Ask away FredW1726 Yes, I can continue saving in AE and converting, but the software would be better solution. DangardAce AE? AFC Eddie I agree, Fred. SkyRydr What do I need to interface a keyboard with SynthLab et all? via MIDI FredW1726 AE format. ELECTMUSIC Sky... you need an external Midi Interface AFL JoyceM Sky, a MIDI cable - use Apple's. Nuzz Hey Fred, you can always get SoundConvert, THat saves to Raw files :) AFL JoyceM Speaking of SoundConvert...want to update us on this program, Mike :) Nuzz You'll be glad you did when System 6 is released SkyRydr How can you tell if a keyboard is MIDI? (especially older ones) AFC DYAJim look for the jacks ELECTMUSIC Check the back for the Midi Plugs ELECTMUSIC Jacks AFL JoyceM They should have the MIDI jacks somewhere...marked MIDI In and MIDI out and sometimes MIDI thru. SkyRydr OK Nuzz Not much to update Joyce, It's real, it's available, and it works AFC Eddie <----Anxiously awaiting his order of SoundConvert. SkyRydr How much do MIDI interfaces usually run? Nuzz I know that somethings a REAL program isn't as exciting as Vapour, but thats life. AFC Eddie What kind of keyboard do you have, Sky? AFL JoyceM <----anxiously awaiting here order of SoundConvert :) AFC DYAJim MIDI interfaces are cheap SkyRydr I don't have the keyboard, it's a friend of mine and I don't remember. Nuzz Who did you order it from Joyce AFL JoyceM Sky, I think Apple's is now about $70. I ordered it directly from you Mike. Sent it January 7th. Nuzz Oh! Shows how much I know.. SkyRydr I have the IIGS and I thought it would be good to get them together. Nuzz I check with Marty S. tomorrow on the status AFL JoyceM Thanks :) AFC Eddie The GS is a great music machine, Sky! AFL JoyceM And there are some really fine MIDI programs too AFC Eddie <--Ordered SoundConvert from Resource Central. SkyRydr I know, but I haven't scratched the surface yet. I need to learn more. Nuzz Cool Eddie, Quality has stock too SkyRydr I have played with SynthLab, Noisetracker, and Music Studio I. AFC Eddie All good programs, but not the best for MIDI. SkyRydr I'm looking for a way to record music for our choir for when the piano player isn't ther. FredW1726 Is Master Tracks Pro still being made for the GS? SkyRydr And she has a MIDI keyboard (she thinks). AFC Eddie It's not being made any more, but is still available. Sky, there are good programs for that! FredW1726 That is an excellent program, I own Master Tracks Jr. AFL JoyceM BTW, I did send BRCC the info about MasterTracks - hope to hear what can be resolved there too. AFC Eddie Musicstudio 2.0, Mastertracks and Diversitune! AFC DYAJim BRCC might pick up MasterTracks? I'd have to buy the pro version then! What happened to that diversitune upgrade bill was "doing"? SkyRydr For Music Studio 2.0, what is the ROM 2.0 that it requires? AFL JoyceM Jim, they might....at least they are going to contact them. Who knows. AFC Eddie Not sure I understand your question, Sky. AFL JoyceM Re DiversiTune - Bill says he is still thinking on it. He has been VERY busy of late. SkyRydr I didn't know there was a ROM 2.0, and the dealer said that they were having...problems with ROM 3 machines. Its what the outside of the box says (ROM 2.0) AFL JoyceM What box? AFC Eddie You mean a Rom 2 GS? AFA Gene Anyone have a problem with MTPro erratically deleting noteoff messages for no apparent reason? AFC Eddie No, Gene. AFC DYAJim ROM 2.0 is ROM01 SkyRydr I looked at it, and it looks good, but I have a ROM 1 machine. AFC Eddie That sounds weird. ELECTMUSIC You mean ya got a stuck on note? Nuzz I have no problem at all Gene. I don't have MTPro :) AFC Eddie No problem with Musicstudio 2.0 and a ROM 1 machine, Sky. SkyRydr so ROM 2.0 = ROM 1 and I'm good to go? AFL JoyceM Sky, MusicStudio will work with both ROM 1 and 3 GS'. AFC Eddie Yes. AFL JoyceM And GS/OS 5.04 SkyRydr Great ELECTMUSIC Gene, do you have a stuck on note? SkyRydr I'm much more of a place the notes musician. AFC Eddie MusicStudio is good for that, as is MusicWriter. AFL JoyceM MusicStudio is still the best overall program, IMHO. AFA Gene :) Mike Greg, yeah, the thing just erratically deletes the noteoffs, of certain notes, for no reason. usually one at a time. AFC Eddie Gene, how are your MIDI filters set in MTPro. SkyRydr Have you used ACER? AFA Gene They're all set correctly Ed, everything works fine... but then while I'm editing, let's say track 3 measure 125, I finish editing it, or I record some more starting from measure 126, and then when I playback from measure 100, I find one note in measure 118 that has lost its noteoff message. ELECTMUSIC Gene, I haven't had that problem...maybe you are reaching the limits of memory for your machine AFC Eddie Wow, that's funny, Gene. I've never had that. AFA Gene It's REALLY REALLY annoying too. :( AFC Eddie The affected note is nowhere near the measure you are recording to? AFA Gene Can you imagine, always having to step-edit these erratically screwed up notes AFL JoyceM How much GS memory do you have, Gene? AFA Gene correct, ed. 1.25 meg, joyce. Perhaps greg is right that my memoryis now not enough, but that's sure a strange way for the machine to complain about out-of-memory :) ELECTMUSIC Out of memory... does alot of strange things AFC Eddie Yeah, but MTPro is funny in a lot of ways, Gene. AFL JoyceM ya...to both computers and human minds :) SkyRydr Has anyone had problems with ACER? I get an error 0047 when I try to start it. AFC Eddie Sky, you need to have tool 29 installed. Nuzz Gene, memory cards and extra memory are at an all time low right now SkyRydr ok Nuzz buy early, and buy plenty AFL JoyceM Gene also needs a harddrive :) Nuzz and you help the economy too :) SkyRydr yep AFA Gene :) AFC Eddie Sky, let me know if that works! AFC Eddie I bought a new music program today.... AFL JoyceM Yes, Eddie ? AFC Eddie Well, actually, an old program, but new to me. Guitar Wizard, from Baudville. AFL JoyceM You play the guitar too? AFC Eddie Quite nice, actually. Gives all chords, scales, improvising help. SkyRydr OK. Does ACER play compressed sound files? I don't have a HD. AFC Eddie That's my main instrument. AFC DYAJim Guitar Wizard? never heard of it before :) AFC Eddie Sky, Acer compresses the files. AFL JoyceM I know it has been around from a number of years, Jim. AFC Eddie Comes on a 5.25 disk, Dos 3.3. Very complete, and prints out nicely. ELECTMUSIC Is it GS specific, Ed? AFC Eddie No! Requires 64 K! SkyRydr Do you have to have the file uncompressed to play it? AFC Eddie But not copy protected. I think so, Sky. Gives all positions of all chords. Very complete. SkyRydr There goes my space saving idea. AFC Eddie Sky, I think the docs with the latest version of Acer tell all about it. SkyRydr OK. I just need to get it to run, I'll try the Tool. AFC Eddie That should do it. AFL JoyceM The Tool is important to run Acer, Sky. SkyRydr OK ELECTMUSIC How does the Improvisational section work, Eddie? AFC Eddie You tell it what key you're in, and what chord you're working on. Then you tell it what tuning your guitar is set to (works with unusual tunings). Then you tell it what style you want to improvise (rock, blues, country, modal, etc.). And it tells you which of the included scales to use. You can print out the fretboard fingerings for each scale. ELECTMUSIC How much is it? AFL JoyceM Wow...pretty complete. AFC Eddie $29.95 from Baudville. AFA Gene I remember when that program first came out... got rave reviews back in 1986 AFC Eddie Full color too. 1985, I think. But it supports the GS printer port. So there must have been a 1986 version! AFC DYAJim either that or they had a beta GS :) ELECTMUSIC Maybe we should do an Apple II software chat? AFC Eddie Not a bad idea! AFL JoyceM We have, a couple of years ago, but there aren't really too many of the older programs available. For the IIe and c's. AFC Eddie You can't get the old Apple II Passport programs from Passport any more. I called and checked. AFC Eddie But Sound Management in Massachusets still has 'em. AFL JoyceM Even FutureSound isn't available anymore. AFC DYAJim that's too bad Nuzz Trivia Fact (There were only 500 FutureSound boards made) AFL JoyceM And in their day, they were tops. Sure wish I had the one Tim loaned me. AFC DYAJim really????????? ELECTMUSIC Geez... I am one of 500, then AFC DYAJim I wish I had one too!!!! Nuzz I have one. It is the best AFC Eddie What does it do? AFC DYAJim maybe I should start advertising inclassifieds ELECTMUSIC IMHO, FSound had the best Digitizing quality AFC Eddie All I know about it is that Instant Synth supports it! Nuzz FutureSound was designed by Byrd Kranish. He also designed the Amiga FS ELECTMUSIC AAnimator really missed the boat on quality... although it is very convenient AFC DYAJim how good does it compare to the quality of MDIdeas pro card, and AE's stuff ELECTMUSIC Not Sure about ProCard Nuzz It beats them hands down AFC DYAJim mdideas = digitizer pro What kind of inputs does it have? Is it a stereo card too? SkyRydr By the way, where does a MIDI interface hook up on the IIGS? Nuzz Mic and line inputs, and an on baord digitizer AFC DYAJim Does it digitize with the ensoniq or an onboard custom chip? ELECTMUSIC It also was the first Digitizing caard, if memory serves me well AFC Eddie Jim's thinking of getting one for DYA Inst disk 2, right? AFC DYAJim Yeah! :) AFC Eddie :) AFL JoyceM Sky, either in the printer port or the modem port on the back of the GS. Nuzz It uses a 6522 with 2 input registers. SkyRydr OK AFC DYAJim Yeah.. digitizers that use the ensoniq usually sound junkier (like the mdideas supersoniq) ELECTMUSIC Mike, it digitized on the board, rather then from the Ensoniq? Nuzz Its really neat to work with. It has a data direction regiseter, timer, 2 input and output SkyRydr Is there a way to digitize sounds without any other hardware like on the IIE? AFC DYAJim mdideas digitizer pro had a custom digitizer chip co-engineered with Sony, it sounded impressive. I take it you also have a developer's kit Mike? :) Nuzz FS uses the 6522 custom chip SkyRydr I remember a BASIC program that inputed thru the cassette plug that would...digitize music etc. AFC DYAJim didn't someone upload a program like that not so long ago? AFC Eddie Yes, I believe that's DigiCorder. Nuzz No Jim, I half hacked it out and half got the test program AFC DYAJim Disassembled the software that comes with it then? :) Nuzz But I do have the register definitions AFL JoyceM Sky, if you have HyperStudio, you get a digitizer card and mic Nuzz Ugh, the software is in Aztek C AFC DYAJim eeeeeeeeewwwwwww.. that would be a mess to disassemble Nuzz You'd go crazy disassembling that SkyRydr I don't have a HyperStudio setup (not much use for one now) AFC DYAJim ick! AFC DYAJim so how did you work out everything? Nuzz WE wanted Byrd to design us a stereo output only card, so he was willing to help in talking to FS, although he "forgot" lots AFC DYAJim Oh.. no "here's the C source" then, eh? Nuzz He sent me the C source for the programs he used to test the boards with. ( AFC Eddie Someone told me today that if you rename the MIDI driver that comes with Musicstudio, it will support the AA interface. I have my doubts. Nuzz well almost the sourcee) It was missing big chunks of code ELECTMUSIC I heard that also, Ed AFC Eddie What would you rename it to, The Card driver name? ELECTMUSIC But, I believe that applied to the Apple Driver... AFC Eddie This user told me that a techie at Quality Computer told him that. ELECTMUSIC Remember when we where renaming Apple Midi driver with MusicStudio? AFC Eddie You mean to take the "." out? AFL JoyceM Ya...for MusicStudio in the old days. ELECTMUSIC Yes AFL JoyceM Well, it seems our time is up...and it is getting late. Sure appreciate you all coming.