APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG January 23, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: synthLAB/MIDI synth Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM) Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dig (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= AFC Eddie BTW, the 3 hottest songs in our library are now MS to SL conversions! AFL JoyceM I know....sure wish I had a sequencer :) Nuzz Which songs Eddie AFC Eddie Star trek, Bolero and Phantom of Opera AFL JoyceM Bolero and Phantom are GREAT!!! AFC Eddie I did Bolero by special request. The conversion, that is. Soon to be more of those. Elie2 Could someone answer a question about synthlab please? please say you can AFC Eddie We can! Elie2 First a general statement: IT'S DRIVING ME CRAZY!! FredChopin I've have playing around with SL all day Elie2 Did you get it to work, Fred? FredChopin yeah AFC Eddie What kind of problems are you having, Elie? Elie2 Your lucky Nuzz what do mean by "work" Elie2 First the program doesn't work. Then it works after I use backround sound, then it crashes! AFC Eddie You installed the tool, right? And the CDev? AFL JoyceM Elie, what is your system setup? Elie2 Yes it was installed and I always get 2 kinds of errors AFL JoyceM The errors say what, Elie? Elie2 1 second IRQ's must be off, and Sound Manager Startup Error FredChopin Text clock must be off AFC Eddie Could be a DA. Nuzz Do you have any Cdevs, inits, nda's and the such? Elie2 Other than the MIDI one? Nuzz Yes, other than tha,t which ones Elie2 Oh boy. I have alot of them AFC GaryG Question: Have the new BNK files been released yet in the "New Files" area? AFC Eddie Yes, Gary, they're there. The standard ones are there. AFL JoyceM How much memory, Elie? Elie2 2 megs Nuzz I'd look at those Elie, any ones that put clocks, or do timed operations Elie2 The only one of those would be text clock nda, Nuzz Nuzz Try disabling that then AFC GaryG I have that G-Wing stuff, and some of the seq's sound really bad. They obviously needed some other BNKs that were not up there, Mr.Toaster said they were up there, but I don't see them. AFC Eddie There are a couple of additional BNKs we may not have up yet. Gary, did you DL all the BNKs that are there and try them? Elie2 Making it inactive or just turning it off? Nuzz Make it inactive, then reboot and remember that synthLab is beta, and DOES have some memory related bugs. Elie2 Ok. but what about the other problem, and the crash? AFC GaryG Yep. I replaced all my SL stuff with all the new versions. BNKs and all. AFL JoyceM Excuse me a minute....let's get Elies problem solved first then we can help Gary....thanx all :) AFC Eddie OK AFL JoyceM Elie, are you using System 5.04? and what launcher are you using? Elie2 System disk 5.03 AFL JoyceM Works fine with 5.03. Elie2 I have the tool in and the cdev also Nagendra Is there any info on synth lab? I'd like to write some stuff to use tool 35 DAGII Anybody know of any plans to build a decent sequencer around SL? ELECTMUSIC Good Question... Dag Nuzz I'd look at the Cdev, DA thing first Elie/ Text Clock has problems with other software. FredChopin Is anyone thinking about doing some classical songs for SL? AFL JoyceM ************ Okay, I have a couple of announcements before we get SERIOUS with synthLAB, etc. I talked with Bill Basham (DiversiTune) today....and he has not had time to work on the latest version of DT - he is still job hunting, etc....he has asked us to write him and bug him to get with it :). I will follow up with him again in March. 2ndly For those who read HOT SHOT......what is the secret word? Roy100 tempo AFC GaryG Tempo? AFL Marty Tempo AFL JoyceM Roy...got it :) Roy wins 1 hour of FREE connect time. See...it pays to read FTFL and HotShot! AFC Eddie Alright, Roy! AFL JoyceM And....if you haven't check...our download count on synthLAB is now at 337! Okay...on to our subject, continue where we left off, before I interrupted :) AFC GaryG Wow! Quantum can retire to Florida now. :) AFL JoyceM Elie....have we helped? Elie2 I still can't understand how it crashed then worked again. AFL JoyceM My suggestion would be to disable that Clock NDA and re-install synthLAB, the tool and the MIDI CDev. Nuzz One of the problems the tool has is that it does not clean up (memory) after itself. So If you load it after having used it, it might crash if memory previously used was allocated by another program or DA sorta techie, but that is it AFC Eddie Some people have said that you should reboot between running BGSound and SL. ELECTMUSIC Mike...do you see Apple revising the MIDI tool to fix that problem Elie2 Eddie that was the only way I got it to work the first time AFL JoyceM Also, Elie, use the Finder to install :) Elie2 The finder is all I got :) AFC Eddie Elie, maybe disable BG Sound. Nuzz It is a known problem Greg, I talked to Dave Lyons about it, and our stuff does have a workaround AFL JoyceM Speaking of new programs for synthLAB, Mike do you want to mention what Triad Venture has available? Nuzz For MIDISynth we have Xcmd players for HyperStudio and HCGS, and 30 really neat tunes (done by the one and only Electmusic really makes stack stand out AFL JoyceM How could one order these packages, Mike? Address, costs, etc? Nuzz And it is shipping. They are available from Programs Plus, and A2 Central $39 retail, less mail order AFL JoyceM Program names? Nuzz The series is called HyperStuff Collection, and the 2 packages are: ClipTunes, and ClipArt Plus. They were both mentioned in the HyperCard review in InCider, that's about it. Thanks. AFL JoyceM Thanks, Mike. AFL JoyceM Gary, you had a question about the .BNK files ? AFC GaryG Yep. Using the Greenwing files, I've noticed that some seqs sound like hell on toast, even though I'm using the new everythings, BNKs, SL, you name it. AFC GaryG I know there's other banks out there, and I'm assuming that the GW files need these. Any chance of getting them? Nuzz Gary, if you load the files in synthLab you can tell which files it wants AFC GaryG Yep. And It seems to load Combo.Bnk if it can't find it. I can't imagine that Greenwing would assign channels to non-existant instruments. AFL JoyceM Gary, what .BNK files are they looking for? AFC GaryG (That seems to be what's happening) AFC GaryG Well, one wants INSTA, which I'm not sure if that's a BNK or instument file. Nuzz OK, that is an instrument file AFC GaryG The others just seem to load fine, not giving the "Can't Find XXX.BNK", but the assignments seem very out of line. AFA Gene That particular one (InstA) is not online yet. AFL JoyceM Okay, Gary? AFC GaryG I guess. I'll just have to not use those songs until something comes up. AFA Gene Gary, do the instrument assignments just sound wrong, as in wrong instrumentation, or does the sound actually come out jumbled? ELECTMUSIC I have a question about the Drum kit instruments located on a couple of the wavebanks. Does anyone know how several drum instruments can be contained within one instrument in Slab? AFL Marty Greg... I'm not that up on it but I do recall reading that several instruments can be included as long as only one at a time is played. ELECTMUSIC ok, that makes sense Marty AFL Marty I'm not sure of the actual mechanics of getting that to happen though. (all the music talk in the docs is Greek to me) ELECTMUSIC I am curious though , how one is able to design those instruments so that they appear as one Nuzz I don't understand Greg, could you repeat the question ELECTMUSIC It's the same technique on MStudio and DTune. Yep, I am am wondering how a Drum Kit is formed in SLab. What that means is that several drum instruments appear as only one instrument in the menu. AFC Eddie Greg, I think it's a matter of assigning one drum to a key. ELECTMUSIC Eddie, thats right. But how is it done? AFL Marty "Each instrument file is a collection of instruments grouped together in what is called an instrument bank." bank = 16 instruments. AFA Gene Yah, isn't there a bar or something that u can manuver to control splitting of the keyboard? ELECTMUSIC How do they assign several sampled instruments to a key. Marty... I didn't mean within a bank - I mean with in ONE INSTRUMENT! one of the 16 instruments contains several drum sounds Nuzz I would think that the drums were digitized as ONE AFL Marty Oh I see. Wouldn't that be like splitting a synth keyboard? ELECTMUSIC Geez.. it sounds like several different samples though AFC Eddie Multi-sampling for each instrument, by frequency, maybe. AFA Gene no - the drumkits are 4 samples each. (or 5) ELECTMUSIC Ok, Gene can you explain how its done AFA Gene Kinda, marty - they split the keyboard approximately by octave-and-a-halfs for the different samples. As i said b4, i think there is a screen somewhere in the pgm (forgot where) that has "bars" which can control the splitting of the keyboard into various sections. I'm not sure on this tho. This is vague memory from early last year. ELECTMUSIC Do you know how the samples are assigned to just that one instrument? AFA Gene Ya know, I take back what I just said about splitting the keyboard. I don't think that was with the drumkits. Come to think of it, i think the drumkit samples are just stuffed into one "sample" like it is in Music Studio. The "stuffing" was done by Mark. AFC Eddie What is "Stuffing"? AFA Gene I dunno eddie, very very bad word usage! :) I don't think it is possible for one to create drumkits with synthlab. ELECTMUSIC It makes sense... what I would like to do is come up with some different drum kits; Sort of a Latin one, Rock one... etc., Maybe this is not possible. Nuzz Ricky Ricardo Music :) ELECTMUSIC I tell ya 64k is mighty small AFL JoyceM Steel drums too, Greg? ELECTMUSIC Sure... Joyce that would be Jamician AFL JoyceM Greg, How about leaving me E-mail exactly what your question is and I will give it to Mark Cecys. ELECTMUSIC Ok, Thanks Joyce. Gene, I would assume it is similiar the MStudio AFL JoyceM Greg, I presume you want the sound rather than the rhythm? ELECTMUSIC I see many similarities between the two ELECTMUSIC Yes Joyce, the rhythms would be created by the user. AFC Eddie Problem with MStudio and SL is so many Banks, waves, insts, etc. AFL JoyceM How about detuning the present drum set - or is that too easy? ELECTMUSIC Gene, have you created your own Drum kits for MStudio? AFL Marty Has anyone used Parik's new NDA? AFL JoyceM Yes, Marty. AFC JohnC absolutely AFL Marty How is it? ELECTMUSIC Eddie... I love all of the sound possibilites with any piece of music technology. AFC Eddie Agreed, Greg. AFL JoyceM I like it...easy to use. Only I haven't recorded with it yet. AFC JohnC Really nice, but in order to get it to run I had to copy the MIDI Drivers into the drivers folder and then it played just fine. ELECTMUSIC Music Shapes biggest problem is its limited sound possibilities AFL Marty Is that in the docs John? AFC Eddie Don't know Music Shapes. AFL JoyceM John, so where did you have the MIDI drivers to begin with? AFC JohnC No it isn't Marty Nuzz You shouldn't need the MIDI drivers to just play songs AFC JohnC I never loaded the MIDI Drivers on the HD from the system tools disk AFL JoyceM I am still using the old MIDI driver from MusicStudio - works just fine. AFC JohnC That's the only way it would work for me AFL JoyceM Sounds logical, since the NDA uses the MIDI tool and a driver must run it :) for MIDIng, that is :) AFC JohnC That's the Apple MIDI and the other...MIDI also AFL Marty Card 6850? (or something) AFC JohnC Right - After I loaded the drivers the NDA worked like a champ....:) before that it wouldn't even load AFL JoyceM THe NDA is a pretty nifty program. Parik is also writing another Tool program, hopefully we will get it soon. AFL Marty Don't forget... HyperCard IIGS conference TOMORROW night at 9. AFL JoyceM Oh...great - thanks for the reminder, Marty. AFC JohnC Does anyone know when that HCGS will be released by Apple? AFL JoyceM GMTA, John...I was just about to ask the same thing. Nuzz You can order it NOW John AFL JoyceM You can? But when will it ship? Nuzz This week if I'm not mistaken, it might have shipped already AFL JoyceM YOu need to order it from Apple, MIke? Nuzz Dealer, APDA, etc part A0027LL/A but Apda is retail AFC JohnC Will they make it available to the discounters? AFL JoyceM When you say dealer, you mean Apple dealer, not, say, Roger Coates? Nuzz Yes, Apple dealer AFL JoyceM $99 still? Nuzz Yes, $99 retail, give them that part number, they can order it AFL JoyceM Thanks, Mike.... AFL JoyceM Thanks everyone for attending this synthLAB/MIDI synth chat. Next week is a BYOTopic. American Online - 1991