Apple II Music & Sound Conference July 25, 1990 10:00 PM EDT Subject: SysExGS Guest: Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS), the author Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM) assisted by ELECTMUSIC (Greg Dib) ELECTMUSIC Ok, Lets get started. Welcome everyone to the Music and Sound Forum. Tonight's Chat is on the program 'SysExGS' and our Forum Guest is: Lindsay Hough, the program's developer and our Forum's AFC. Before we continue, I would like to make a requestof all DiversiTune Users. Bill Basham is currently upgrading the program and has requested input into possible new or improved features. This is your chance make requests on features you would like to see. Feel free to read the latest news on DTune and add your thoughts in our Forums "Lets Discuss". Ok, on with the Chat. SysExGS is one of three professional MIDI programs available for the GS (IMHO). While the need for this program might seem confusing to the novice, stay tune, and I hope to be of some help. Now, it gives me great pleasure to introduce: Lindsay Hough Extemp ::clapping:: LindsayGS Gee Greg - what an intro!? Hi everyone. I think well start with a few basics - how many here use MIDI now -(yes/no)? ADAMMED no.. Extemp Yes Fuzzguppet No. TerryB53 no IanG1 no LindsayGS Newcomers are always welcome (the veterans make us nervous) :) Cappy MAYBE! (whatever) LindsayGS OK - MIDI stands for musical instrument digital interface - it's a system for transmitting hi speed serial data bytes that encode musical commands - sort of like start a note stop a note, etc. Any questions so far? The beauty of MIDI is that all the instruments speak and understand the same language - it's a standard - a Yamaha keyboard can talk to a Roland etc. ELECTMUSIC Lindsay... I was curious as to how many users have keyboards or synthesizers. LindsayGS (y/n) Extemp <--- Yamaha YPR-9, really bad, no MIDI thru, only 5 instruments. Playing a CASIO right now. TerryB53 Neither Fuzzguppet I've got a rinky dink one - no MIDI. ELECTMUSIC Are any of you planning to upgrade your equipment? Fuzzguppet Yup! Extemp <--- Would like to for under 500$ LindsayGS OK - well MIDI allows one command that lets each system send msgs that only that system can understand - called system exclusive message. Yamaha can understand Yam SysExs, but ignores other's ...you get the idea. This SX message can be anything - but usually contains setups, or voice info or even musical sequences if your keyboard can record sequences. ELECTMUSIC I would add, that it's important to upgrade to a piece of equipment that supports SysEx (what Lindsay, just described). LindsayGS OK - you guys must have questions by now. Extemp What is the product being discussed here, if one is being discussed? LindsayGS OK - the product is called SysEx Gs and it allows GS users who have MIDI equipment to save their keyboard setups and songs onto the disk, so if your synth can store 32 voices - and you want to make a 33rd what do you do? You buy a RAM cartridge for your synth - or you send the stuff to the GS with my program - SysExGS. Fuzzguppet Does Audio Animator count as MIDI to SysEx GS? LindsayGS The program AA is a sequencer and will ignore sysex msgs, but if you have an AA card, my program will use it to save your MIDI info. Fuzzguppet But will it recognize the card and utilize it? LindsayGS Yes, the program uses the AA card if you have a synth that can send/rcv SX. Extemp Does your program play songs through the //gs? LindsayGS No - it doesn't play songs, but it can store them from your synth and send them back to it later. ELECTMUSIC Most Keyboards have ram cards that plug in for storage of info. Extemp Then, it's not what I'm looking for, I'll be back next week. My Keyboard is completely stupid, have to upgrade. Fuzzguppet How long would a typical instrument take to send, or 1000 notes of sequencer data? LindsayGS A few seconds - maybe 4-5 sec. ELECTMUSIC This program will save $, if you have been purchasing Ram cards for your keyboard LindsayGS One of the other things that's fun is to trade songs/sounds with other AOL users who have the same equipment - we've started doing that in our MIDI library. MartinGore What system requirements do I need to use sysGS? LindsayGS You need a GS with 768K running 5.02 GSOS plus a MIDI interface (either internal, AA, or external and a MIDI instrument capable of sending SysEx messages. ELECTMUSIC Marty... what kind of MIDI equipment are you using? MartinGore I don't have any right now but I'm researching everything cause I want to get into doing it. ELECTMUSIC Great... make sure you choose equipment that supports SysEx. Fuzzguppet Does MasterTracks Pro for the GS have a SysEx dump? ELECTMUSIC No, Fuzz LindsayGS Not for the GS unfortunately. ELECTMUSIC It should, but that's why Lindsay developed his program. (System Exclusive) LindsayGS Marty - you should look up last week's log - Greg gave us some excellent advice about good keyboards to buy. The log from last week is in the AMS library MartinGore Ok. What about the AE Audio Animator will that work with SysEx? LindsayGS AA software ignores SysEx but my program works with their card (AE hardware works with sysEXGS, AE software ignores the SX messages) MartinGore What would be a good program to use and a good MIDI interface to use? That's not too expensive. I'm not a musician I just want to take advantage of my GS. LindsayGS I think you kinda need to know what you want to do? Record multiple tracks? composing? arranging? a little of everything? ELECTMUSIC Marty, the cheapest interface is the Apple's MIDI Interface MartinGore Is this interface any good? What do you mean by multiple tracks? ELECTMUSIC Apple's Interface is perfect for introduction to the world of MIDI. LindsayGS OK - with a sequencing program - you can record a 4 part song 1 part at a time each part is called a track. You need a MIDI keyboard and apple interface to get started. All MIDI keyboards don't all have all MIDI features, however. MartinGore Yeh I read about that in GS buyers guide (that's how I heard about this) Fuzzguppet If I had a song on the GS that I had created on the GS with a sequencing prog., could I dump it to my keyboard's sequencer with your program? LindsayGS Not really, Fuzz - the System Ex message has to come from the MIDI equipment; however - you can record the song into the GS and then play it back through the MIDI equipment - you don't need my program to do that. ELECTMUSIC Let me add, to that. Fuzz, you can MIDI dump the sequence from the GS to your keyboards sequencer THEN you can save the sequencer from your keyboard back to the GS JohnC154 Can you play on the keyboard and have the notes appear on the screen? ELECTMUSIC Using Lindsay's program. JohnC154 Yes LindsayGS Not with my program, that's not what it's for-but yes, with other progs ELECTMUSIC What you have at the this point is a file in your KEYBOARDS format MartinGore Will this program be able to sample? and add them into the song or is that some other topic? ELECTMUSIC I have used Lindsay program, just for that LindsayGS No - it's just a program for saving and sending messages from your MIDI equipment. MartinGore ok. I get the big picture now. LindsayGS Great ! ELECTMUSIC You can also trade sequences with similiar keyboards. Is it any clearer, Fuzz? Fuzzguppet Still a little cloudy, but clearing up. LindsayGS One way to think of what SysExGS can do is that whatever your MIDI equipment can store, send and rcv by sysex - you can store on your GS with SysEx GS (except sampled sound and CZ synths) MartinGore Lindsay is your last name Hough? LindsayGS Right, Martin - it's Hough (pronounce Huff) ELECTMUSIC Fuzz, your question was an excellent one. Professional MIDI users would look for that possibility MartinGore So when I'm ready to order I order through you? (I read the article :) LindsayGS Right - Martin - just Email me for questions. Fuzzguppet CZ as in Casio CZ-1000? LindsayGS Right. Fuzz - the program won't work with CZ101,1000, 3000 or 5000. ELECTMUSIC Fuzz, do you have a CZ Fuzzguppet I've a Casio, but it's really low on the evolutionary scale. LindsayGS A 101? ELECTMUSIC Which one? Fuzzguppet Worse. Ancient non-MIDI. Fuzzguppet We're looking at some newer, more complex stuff. LindsayGS Well - if you can play it, you're better off than I am. LindsayGS As I mentioned, last week's chat might be useful if you're in the market for a keyboard. AFL SandyB Hi, I'm sorry to be late...I don't know anything about music on the //gs and I'm sure I could have learned something! LindsayGS That's OK - questions are welcome (all questions) ELECTMUSIC Any ideas on what direction to go , Fuzz Fuzzguppet Up! MartinGore Do you guys know about the Synthlab and the MIDIsynth tool? LindsayGS Sure do, Martin. MartinGore Are they pretty good stuff? can they do alot? LindsayGS They dramatically improve the sound that can come out of the GS. Takes advantage of the ensoniq chip as never before, and also make programming the chip much easier. MartinGore Are they expensive ELECTMUSIC Marty, the potential of these.. are truly" awesome". No, should be free on the next system upgrade, that's not too expensive is it? :) LindsayGS I think you'll see several new products released using the new tool, as well. MartinGore So if I had the Synth Lab MIDI Synth tool and a killer keyboard and SYSGS I would be set? ELECTMUSIC SynthLab, is more of a demonstration type program. LindsayGS You might consider a sequencing program, too, Martin. MartinGore Ok and what is the best MIDI interface? ELECTMUSIC It's too hard to create, using SynthLab. LindsayGS Cheapest is Apple's (about $80) and it does the job. You can get ones with more inputs for $150. MartinGore Ok. But that would only be for multiple instruments right? LindsayGS Right, Martin. MartinGore Ok I know exactly what I want for X-mas thanx guys!!! AFL DannyH Apple's sequencing program is called??? ELECTMUSIC SynthLab LindsayGS Apple's program is called SynthLab, but it's not much of a sequencer-really more of an instrument editor. AFL DannyH Oh, I thought that was not released yet. ELECTMUSIC It hasn't been released yet. Fuzzguppet Supposing I had two keyboards chained together and run to the GS, could I, using MT pro, send selective note information to each keyboard, or would the first one hog all the signals? LindsayGS You can, Fuzz, by assigning the synths different channels. ELECTMUSIC (MIDI Channels) LindsayGS With the sequencer, you assign each track of music a specific channel (1-16) then tell the synths what channels they're allowed to play. Multi-timbral instruments can play several instruments at once, each on a different channel! ELECTMUSIC Think of it like your TV, Fuzz. You can have more then one TV hooked up to an antenna - you set them to different channels for different info... or the same channel for the same info Fuzzguppet Took the question right out of my mouth. AFL DannyH A little off the subject, but is Apple going to market SynthLab?? ELECTMUSIC Danny, I don't believe Apple will market it. I just think it will appear on the system disk. LindsayGS Sandy - do you have a MIDI instrument? AFL SandyB Lindsay, no, as far as I know my //gs isn't capable of music, :(. LindsayGS So it's important for a keyboard to know -how many notes it can play. Notes = polyphony - multiple sounds = multi-timbrel Fuzzguppet Let's set ourselves a concrete example to work from: We have a GS. We have a MIDI device hooked up to our GS. We have a keyboard... multi-timbrel, polyphonic, the works hooked in. Aside from archival purposes, how would your software benefit (for this example, assume we have every piece of sequencing software known to the GS)? LindsayGS Fuzz - if the synth can only hold 1 song in its sequencer, then you have to throw all of them away except 1. With SysExGS, you can store 100 songs and send the one you want to play back to your synth - same is true for voice patches, - if you can only hold 32 in the synth - send the rest to the GS! ELECTMUSIC Fuzz, I see Lindsay's program essentially for: archiving, trading, and saving money on Ram Cards Fuzzguppet What if the keyboard was Ensonic's VFX-SD. Could we digitize sound with the ensonic chip on board the GS? LindsayGS If it's not a sampling keyboard, it should work fine. ELECTMUSIC If you check our MIDI library... you will see some files for SysEx. Fuzzguppet Then send the sounds SysEx to the keyboard (Ensonic to Ensonic)? LindsayGS Not with my program - the ensoniq chip in the GS doesn't speak ensoniq SysEX - it just makes sounds :) ELECTMUSIC Lindsay... can you think of any other purposes for your program? LindsayGS I think you summarized it Greg -archiving, trading and saving money on RAM cartridges ELECTMUSIC Any other questions for Lindsay on SysExGs? AFL DannyH I made a cardinal mistake when I bought a keyboard for my son. The keyboard I bought does not send velocity, one model up and it would have a keyboard that does not send velocity is useless for MIDI recording with a sequencer program:( LindsayGS I made the same mistake, Danny. I don't know if that's true, Danny - Greg? useless is a bit overstated? ELECTMUSIC Yea, a little to harsh. I think some good music could still be created ie.Rock AFL DannyH Oh he can create music with it but the notes come out all the same strength. ADAMMED I want to send digitized sounds and move to a Mac. AFA Parik You wanna take a digitized GS sound (binary I assume) and move it over to the Mac, right? I've never worked with AFE. :(it should work though. Try using a null modem cable instead of AFE. Extemp But, I am a musician, using Master Traks PRo on the Mac, but want to use //gs. LindsayGS Extemp - what do you want to do on the GS? Extemp Use //gs sounds with MIDI, instead of playing through the keyboard. ADAMMED So send it via modem to my friend? AFA Parik Yup. but you'll need to save it as AIFF on the GS, somehow. not sure which program will save in that format. ELECTMUSIC I would like to thank all of your for attending. The questions were great and feel certain that Lindsay explained exactly what his program, SysExGS, can do. A big thank you to Lindsay Hough for this program and his discussions this evening. Good Night America Online - 1990