=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG August 14, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: Converting MIDI Files from Other Platforms Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AFC Eddie OK, well, we're here to discuss using MIDI files from other platforms. First, I suppose we should ask why any Apple II owner would want to use a MIDI file to begin with. There are a number of Apple II programs that recognize that format. AFL Marty Such as? AFC Eddie They include sequencing programs, like Mastertracks. It imports and saves standard MIDI files. It can use them to drive (play) MIDI instruments. Another program that recognizes the MIDI format is Musicwriter.That program will convert such a file into music transcript and print it in high quality on an Imagewriter or laser printer. Yet another great program that recognizes MIDI files is Midimate. That's the program by our very own Lindsay Hough (Lindsay GS) which will convert multi-track MIDIsequences into SynthLAB sequences. So, as you can see, there are lots of good uses for the MIDI file for Apple II users. So, where can we find these files? AFL JoyceM What is a 'standard' MIDI file? AFC Eddie a "standard" MIDI file is a filetype originally designed to be used across computer platforms and with a variety of MIDI instruments and other devices. It is NOT system exclusive, therefore. (Please feel free to interrupt with questions and comments!) One of the best places to look for MIDI files is right here in the AMS library. We have a large selection of MIDI sequences representing all types of musical styles. And all you have to do is download them to use them. But as you roam around the AOL world, you will find MIDI files in other places as well, such as the Mac music and sound forum (Keyword MMS). MDW Flyer Also look over in the PC Library. MUSIC:MIDI, STD Type1 files all over. 8) AFC Eddie Yes, use Keyword PC Music for that area. So, what do you do if you see a file in one of those areas that you like and want to use? AFL JoyceM What do you do? AFC Eddie The answer depends on what area it's in and on how the file was archived, if it was archived at all. Let's start with MIDI files you find in the Mac area. Most of the MIDI files you find there have been archived with Stuffit, the primary Mac archiving utility. MDW Flyer Standard Type 1 MIDI files are usually not archived. OR SHOULD NOT BE. AFC Eddie It's easy for GS owners to get access to those, because the GS version of Shrinkit will unarchive Stuffit files! Exception: It will not unarchive files archived with the new Stuffit Deluxe! TheDoors1 Do you know what will? AFL JoyceM However.....those Mac MIDI files have headers and footers that our MIDI programs, for now cannot use. There is a utility being written to eliminate that problem. AFC Eddie If you use GS Shrinkit to "unstuff" a Mac file, it will also automatically strip the headers! AFL JoyceM Really? AFC Eddie Yes. AFC Eddie If the file was archived with Stuffit Deluxe, the only way a GS owner can access it is to find a Mac friend to download it, unstuff it, and re-archive it with the older stuffit. MDW Flyer LETS DISTINGUISH BETWEEN WHAT IS & ISN'T A STANDARD MIDI FILE. AFC Eddie But there's more! AFL JoyceM ? AFC Eddie Flyer, would you like to describe the distinction? MDW Flyer The technical aspects of the file format can be found in several docs online. AFL JoyceM Where, Flyer? MDW Flyer The problem most often encountered in using some of the "Type 1" files is that the uploader embeds instrument specific changes to voiceing. This will very often clobber the output if the user has a different setup. AFC Eddie Do you mean program changes? MDW Flyer There is a recently uploaded file over in the PC area. If you'd like I'll put it up over here. I also have a text file of the Electronic Musician article from Apr 90 edition around my disk (desk) somewhere. AFL JoyceM I would appreciate those articles in the AMS New Library area, Flyer. Thanks. AFC Eddie That would probably be helpful to a lot of people, Flyer. AFC Eddie Joyce, did you have a question? AFL JoyceM Yes....When we (Mac and PC) areas have been discussing having a standard MIDI file area for AMS for all platforms, much discussion was on how we (GS) could use the Mac MIDI files - there are many problems and we were told that ShrinkItGS would NOT strip those headers and footers and that another utility would have to be used (written). Some rules would have to be made to uploaders of std. MIDI files to the Mac area. I could be wrong, but that is what is holding up this area. MDW Flyer ! AFL JoyceM GA Flyer. MDW Flyer Its very seldom that a sequence runs more than 15 to 40 K in a STD Type 1 file Why even bother compressing it? The savings isn't worth the effort and defeats the transportability of the format that we are trying to promote. AFL JoyceM I understand that they (Mac) do. We don't (AMS). AFC Eddie I prefer them to be compressed because with GSHK I don't have to worry about the headers. GSHK gets rid of them. Unless it was compressed with Stuffit Deluxe. But the header problem is present if it was NOT compressed! Then you need a stripping utility. MDW Flyer Than it is not a STD Type 1 MIDI file. AFC Eddie Yes, Flyer, it is! I've recently downloaded a program called Stripper from AUT which will supposedly get rid of the headers. AFL JoyceM Interesting! MDW Flyer The header portion of a standard midi file is well defined. Are you talking about the midi sequence values? AFC Eddie I've dl'd many stuffed Mac MIDI files, unshrunk them and used them. MDW Flyer So have I. AFC Eddie Aren't they standard Type 1 files? MDW Flyer That is what the uploader usually says. BUT, quite often when you look at the actual file with a block editor (after it has bombed out), you find that the Standard MIDI FILE header does not in fact conform to the Standard. AFC Eddie That could be, but I've rarely had one of them bomb out, from the Mac area, anyway. Mastertracks imports and plays them without problem. AFL JoyceM Ah....that was what I was talking about - thanks, Flyer. (I just get my terms confused) :) MDW Flyer Usually the uploader has erred, or their program is generating something other than a standard MIDI file. Its quite common with the MAC programs. AFC Eddie Just a reminder: Even after you use GSHK to de-compress these files, another step is necessary, and that is a filetype change. MDW Flyer Ed: Have you had any (MAC) files that haven't imported to MTjr. ? AFC Eddie Flyer, only those that were not compressed. The compressed ones were "fixed" by GSHK. MDW Flyer I usually use the FileEye NDA or SHRConvert 2.1 for the file type change. TheDoors1 or wings. AFC Eddie You can also use DiskAccess or FileManager NDA. MDW Flyer APW also is handy when I have it loaded. AFC Eddie change the type to: Type D7, Aux type 0000. AFL JoyceM Eddie, if you downloaded an unStuffed Mac file and shrink it with ShrinkItGS, and then unshrink, is there still a problem? AFC Eddie I tried that, and it didn't work. Anyway, on to the PC files, unless you want to discuss Mac files further? MDW Flyer PC sounds good to me. I just bought a Notebook 386. AFC Eddie With PC files, there are no headers, so if it was not compressed, just dl it. MDW Flyer And if it is compressed? AFC Eddie If it was compressed, access depends on the utility used to compress it. If it was ARC'd, then GSHK will work again! AFL JoyceM I think you need to change the filetype on the PC MIDI file too, right? AFC Eddie And the filetype change will also be needed. AFC Eddie If it was ZIP'd, use AGATE to unzip, then change filetype. MDW Flyer I've had numerous problems with AOL when dl'ing PC wares. AFC Eddie AGATE is available in ACM, I believe. MDW Flyer AGATEs what I've found to work the best. MDW Flyer I'll get all sorts of ANSI codes on my screen as the dl progresses, then it bonk's at me. Usually after the second file has gotten half way through. AFC Eddie Something funny's been going on in PC music lately, though my problem is slightly different. In the middle of a MIDI dl from PC Music the screen starts breaking up. I can fix it by moving to a different AOL area, but the dl is usually NG. But That's only happened the last week or 10 days. MDW Flyer I just ordered a PC version of AOL to see if that fixes some problems. Sounds just like my problem. 8| AFC Eddie How long have you had the problem, Flyer? MDW Flyer On and off now for 2 months. AFC Eddie For me it's been very recent, as I mentioned. MDW Flyer I've tried to capture some of the info in a log file but it doesn't seem consistent enough. AFL JoyceM Eddie, how about writing up a How-To-use MIDI files from other platforms and put in our New Files area....? AFC Eddie Sure, Joyce. Do you remember some time ago I did one on using Mac MIDI files? AFL JoyceM It seems to me the PC side changed their software - upgraded - wonder if that has anything to do with the problem? AFC Eddie When did that happen, Joyce? AFL JoyceM It seems to me about 2 months ago. MDW Flyer The screen breakup you describe has ANSI screen controls embedded in gibberish AFC Eddie I'll keep trying, and send them some mail if I keep having the problem. AFL JoyceM Great... AFC Eddie Flyer, that's not what my screen looks like. The windows just break apart. MDW Flyer Thats the ANSI characters being interpreted as mousetext I think. AFC Eddie Ah! MDW Flyer It may have something to do with the Marquee type messaging we see on the message line. But with the PC messages they are not directed into just one line. Thats just a hunch on my part. I don't have any proof yet. AFC Eddie Good theory, though. MDW Flyer I have not had any problem when I'm on very early in the a.m. Wonder why? AFC Eddie That's interesting! AFL JoyceM And just think - a couple of years ago, we didn't even think of using other MIDI files from the Mac, let alone the PC! AFL JoyceM Thank you. AFL JoyceM -------------log off -----------