The Status of Apple System Software & Apple Vogon Hypocrisy

(The Ongoing Linear Collective - *Excluding thoughts from Nebraska)


Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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Frank Townsend writes ...
> 
> But look at this section of the Copyright Act:
> 
> ¤ 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs
> (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of
> Copy.-Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an
> infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or
> authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer
> program provided:
> 
> (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in
> the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and
> that it is used in no other manner[.]
> 
> I would have to say that a reasonable interpretation of this section
> provides at least some legal authority for an owner to use a ROM in the
> manner described by Jeff.
 ....

     Yes, you would have to say that, if someone held a gun to your head or
you were just determined to avoid the obvious facts of the situation.

     A few programs do require that copies of originals be made and used. For
example, Wizardry V is played on copies of the originals because the 'Play
Disks' are changed as you explore the multi-level maze. (Otherwise, making a
copy is permitted only for purposes of having a backup.)

     Using an Apple IIgs does not _require_ anyone to rip out the ROM code
and transport it to another computer. Were the mere wish to transport IIgs
functionality adequate grounds for moving the ROM code, Apple's copyright
(and every other firmware copyright) would be worthless. 



Rubywand

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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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From: "Frank Townsend" <ftownsen@iamdigex.net>
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No (taking your points in reverse order), Apple's firmware copyrights would
not be worthless (unless this is hyperbole), since one must be an owner to
make the copy.

The section of the statute does not limit its coverage those situations
where the copy is required, rather to ones where the making of the copy is
an essential step in its use.

The statute does not limit itself to situations where the making of the copy
is automatically made by the computer (rom to ram, etc., otherwise the
"authorize" and "adaptation" language would not be there).

I am not determined to avoid any facts (and there are no guns being held to
my head ;-))

The point is that the statutory language is quite broad, and could encompass
copying of ROM code by the licensed owner of a copy of that code.  If the
drafters of the statute wanted to exclude that, they could have easily have
done so.  Thus, a reasonable interpretation is that such copying is
permitted.  I am not asserting that this is the correct interpretation, or
the only interpretation.  But someone reading the statute might reasonably
conclude that copying the ROM code to use it in a computer is a permissible
activity.

If you like, I *could* argue the other way (for a price, of course;-))


However, I am a little confused now: are you arguing that this kind of
copying by an owner is illegal, but obtaining copies of copyrighted software
from FTP sites is legal?


Frank Townsend
Looking at a sunshiny day in beautiful Baltimore

Rubywand wrote in message <39606DA0.5C585F95@swbell.net>...
>Frank Townsend writes ...
>>
>> But look at this section of the Copyright Act:
>>
>> ¤ 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs
>> (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of
>> Copy.-Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an
>> infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or
>> authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer
>> program provided:
>>
>> (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in
>> the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and
>> that it is used in no other manner[.]
>>
>> I would have to say that a reasonable interpretation of this section
>> provides at least some legal authority for an owner to use a ROM in the
>> manner described by Jeff.
> ....
>
>     Yes, you would have to say that, if someone held a gun to your head or
>you were just determined to avoid the obvious facts of the situation.
>
>     A few programs do require that copies of originals be made and used.
For
>example, Wizardry V is played on copies of the originals because the 'Play
>Disks' are changed as you explore the multi-level maze. (Otherwise, making
a
>copy is permitted only for purposes of having a backup.)
>
>     Using an Apple IIgs does not _require_ anyone to rip out the ROM code
>and transport it to another computer. Were the mere wish to transport IIgs
>functionality adequate grounds for moving the ROM code, Apple's copyright
>(and every other firmware copyright) would be worthless.

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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:42:18 -0700
From: Wayne Stewart <waynes@intergate.bc.ca>
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Rubywand wrote:

>      Except for one thing: Apple II system software is not licensed. Nobody
> has a valid license to distribute Apple II system software.

Check out the new User Group software distribution agreement at
http://developer.apple.com/mkt/swl/agreements.html#user
It specifically allows distributing of Apple II System software by the user 
group.
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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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Wayne Stewart writes ...
> 
> Rubywand wrote:
> 
> > Except for one thing: Apple II system software is not licensed. Nobody
> > has a valid license to distribute Apple II system software.
> 
> Check out the new User Group software distribution agreement at
> http://developer.apple.com/mkt/swl/agreements.html#user
> It specifically alows distributin of Apple II System
> software by the user group.

 ....

     When you go to that URL, what you find is ...

>>
Macintosh User Group

If you'd like to distribute Macintosh software as a Macintosh User Group you
will need to download and complete the license agreement below.
<<
 ....

     Macintosh software is not Apple II software. A search of the page found
no instance of "Apple II".

     However(!), if you go to the users' group software licensing agreement,
you find that the covered software includes software available via the net at
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/
(except the Mac OS).  This includes GS System 6.0.1 and HyperCard software.

     It also includes software in "Exhibit A" of the document. Exhibit A
lists "Apple IIgs System Software", "Apple II System Software", GS Debugger,
..., and, even "DOS 3.3". Restrictions include non-profit distribution to
members, who are supposed to sign (or, on the net, click agreement with)
Apple's licensing terms.

     Must admit I had not considered users' group licenses; but, as you say,
they do include Apple's Apple II software.

     One item on the users' group license may supply hope for those with
licenses for distributing software commercially. The users' group license
specifies that it remains in effect until/unless cancelled. So, if the
commercial distribution licenses include the same provision, absence of a
cancellation notice would seem to mean that the license is still valid. (This
would conflict somewhat with the response of Apple's rep when asked directly
whether or not anyone has a valid license to distribute Apple II software.)

     Nowhere is there any mention of a license to distribute Apple II ROM
code.

     Thanks for posting the info and the link!



Rubywand

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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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From: "Frank Townsend" <ftownsen@iamdigex.net>
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Not to worry: no one was proposing that, anyway ;-)

Rubywand wrote in message <3960EC79.B68BC1CD@swbell.net>...

>     Nowhere is there any mention of a license to distribute Apple II ROM
code.
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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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Frank Townsend writes ...
> 
 ...

> But someone reading the statute might reasonably
> conclude that copying the ROM code to use it in a computer is a 
> permissible activity.
>

     Someone could try; but, it would be a waste of time. The statute you
mention clearly applies to software and, at that, under very limited
circumstances.

 
> If you like, I *could* argue the other way (for a price, of course;-))
>

     I shall definitely need to consider that!



> However, I am a little confused now: are you arguing that this kind of
> copying by an owner is illegal, but obtaining copies of copyrighted
> software from FTP sites is legal?
 ....

     No. There is essentially no difference in "legality" between the
activities-- i.e. downloading old out of print commercial software and
downloading/transferring old Apple ROMs.

     Since there is no official public permission, both activities,
technically, qualify as copyright violations. However, neither activity
damages the value of the property (in both situations, nearly zero). In fact,
everyone, including the rights owners, benefits. So, really, we are talking
about a reasonable taking of liberties with the properties.

     Whether you call the activities "violations" or "taking liberties", the
vast majority of users sees nothing wrong with downloading ancient out of
print software and firmware. The same goes for transferring old ROM code for
use with an emulator.

     The point in identifying ROM code and, possibly, other copyright
violations is to demonstrate that those who attack archives and call users
"pirates" will excuse, 'crawfish', or otherwise ignore what they call
"piracy" when it is practiced by themselves or members of their own clique.
Once you know this, it is much easier to set aside their moral posturing and
just evaluate the facts.



Rubywand

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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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From: "Paul Grammens" <grammens@svn.net>
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Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net> wrote
>
>      No. There is essentially no difference in "legality" between the
> activities-- i.e. downloading old out of print commercial software and
> downloading/transferring old Apple ROMs.
>
>      Since there is no official public permission, both activities,
> technically, qualify as copyright violations. However, neither activity
> damages the value of the property (in both situations, nearly zero). In
fact,
> everyone, including the rights owners, benefits. So, really, we are
talking
> about a reasonable taking of liberties with the properties.
>

Good points. People have been kind enough to send me email attachments of
drivers and sell me ROM upgrades for some of the A2 hardware I've scrounged.
If that makes me a pirate (and I'm certain it does), then all I can say
is.... RAISE THE JOLLY ROGER!
"16 men on a dead cat's chest
YO HO HO and a bottle of Apple juice!
Downloading from the Devil has done for the rest
YO HO HO and a bottle of Apple juice!"  ;)
-Paul

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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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From: "Frank Townsend" <ftownsen@iamdigex.net>
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Correct me if I am wrong, but the statute expressly refers to "a computer
program" and ROM code is a computer program, isn't it?

Frank

Waiting for the fireworks, in Baltimore . . .

Rubywand wrote in message <396249DB.F3F9D5EF@swbell.net>...
>Frank Townsend writes ...

>> But someone reading the statute might reasonably
>> conclude that copying the ROM code to use it in a computer is a
>> permissible activity.
>>
>
>     Someone could try; but, it would be a waste of time. The statute you
>mention clearly applies to software and, at that, under very limited
>circumstances.

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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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Yes, and wasn't that an issue in the Apple vs Franklin case?

-- 

Thank you for your time and interest. I hope it was helpful
or at least interesting.

Phoenyx,

Apple2 user since March 1984

Links to Phoenyx's pages:
preferred..... http://zip.to/Phoenyx_A2
alternate..... http://www.tinyangeldesigns.com/Apple2

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Subject: Re: the status of Apple system software & vogon hypocrisy
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Yes.

The reason I asked the question is because Rubywand's argument (if I may be
so bold as to summarize :-) is that users that object to copyrighted
material on the FTP sites are hypocrites because at least some on those same
individuals feel that the use of ROM code in emulators is acceptable or a
gray area.

My argument was that the Copyright Act permits an owner of a computer
program to copy that program as an "essential step" in the use of the
program.

Rubywand argued that the language refers to software and not to ROM code,
and that is why I posed the question.

It may be of interest to read the 9th Circuit case SONY v CONNECTIX at

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=9th&navby=docket&no=9915
852

In this case, Connectix copied the BIOS code for the Sony PlayStation to use
in an emulator to observe the workings of the program.  Although Connectix
argued (as I have) that copying the ROM code is protected by section 117,
the court never relied on that rationale, instead ruling that the copying of
the ROM program into RAM was a protected fair use!!

Also, note the following from SEGA LTD. v. ACCOLADE (1992)

"Section 117 was enacted on the recommendation of CONTU, which noted that
"[b]ecause the placement of any copyrighted work into a computer is the
preparation of a copy [since the program is loaded into the computer's
memory], the law should provide that persons in rightful possession of
copies of programs be able to use them freely without fear of exposure to
copyright liability."

So, my conclusion is that an owner in rightful possession of a ROM may under
at least two theories (fair use, or authorization under section 117) use a
copy of that ROM to operate an emulator.

That being said, to distribute copyrighted ROM code on an internet/BBS site
or to download it is just as illegal as distributing or downloading any
copyrighted work, regardless of whether the software is sold on store
shelves any longer.

For the view of the Interactive Digital Software Association on copyright
and software piracy, here is their web site:

http://compactiongames.about.com/games/compactiongames/gi/dynamic/offsite.ht
m?site=http://www.idsa.com/piracy.html


Phoenyx wrote in message <39629577.EBB0C94E@dcnet2000.com>...

>Yes, and wasn't that an issue in the Apple vs Franklin case?

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Subject: Re: System 5.04? ... and the status of Apple system software
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From: "Mike Westerfield" <MikeW50@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 16:17:08 -0600
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In article <395DABC2.8EBDD46A@swbell.net>, Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>
wrote:


> Technically, anyone who distributes Apple's Apple II system software
> beyond the small scale user-to-user exchanges of diskettes normally allowed
> is in "violation" of Apple's copyrights.

Not so.

I can't speak for others, but I have a signed legal document from Apple
computer that allows me to sell all of the Apple-produced software we offer,
including the system disks.

See http://www.byteworks.org for a complete list. There's a lot more there
than just system software!

Mike Westerfield
Byte Works, Inc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Yes, many of us appreciate Mike's efforts. I try to recommend
his site as often as possible. Hmm, maybe I should put a link
to his site on my page too.

-- 

Thank you for your time and interest. I hope it was helpful
or at least interesting.

Phoenyx,

Apple2 user since March 1984

Links to Phoenyx's pages:
preferred..... http://zip.to/Phoenyx_A2
alternate..... http://www.tinyangeldesigns.com/Apple2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: System 5.04?
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From: "Mike Westerfield" <MikeW50@aol.com>
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----------
In article <290620001307129766%spangler@gorge.net>, Michael Spangler
<spangler@gorge.net> wrote:


> Does anyone know where to find the full install disk set for system
> 5.04? I have found the single disk version that has the improved HFS
> translator, and it was a big help, but I haven't been able to find the
> full set.

http://www.byteworks.org

Mike Westerfield
Byte Works, Inc.